Why are so many neurodivergent people attracted to and concentrated in the arts?

[Doctor Cringelord]

why? seems to be a disproportionate amount of them in the arts. And of the ones who tried to pursue business and "normal" careers, many seem to be failed artists or in the least are hobbyists in various arts.

 

[MaxMad244]

I am neurodivergent. I could not make up my mind on anything. I have my strong passions which reflect my neurodivergent state but I am the complete opposite of what you describe.

 

[chubber]

maybe they just gave up? I always keep reading, how many times successful businesses were due lessons learned from many failed businesses before them. or am I understanding that incorrectly? what is your definition of failure? employment opportunities, corporate, small business? what are we talking here?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

You can just look at the unemployment rates for disabled people to understand my question. The rate for disabled people is well above the average, and is even higher among people with autism, people with disorders affecting nervous system threat response, and people with other various developmental disorders (AKA anyone not autistic but still falling under the umbrella of neurodivergence). That's not even considering the number of "discouraged workers" on the neurodivergent spectrum (discouraged workers are not typically included in labor department unemployment rate statistics). A multitude of autists and neurodivergents who have already given up. Not to mention the high suicide rate among neurodivergents and autistics--that's just counting the ones who were diagnosed and known of when they decided to kill themselves--there's likely a much higher number of neurodivergents who have committed suicide as a result of feeling totally alienated and out of sync with the rest of their species.

Chronic unemployment is high among neurodivergents and many struggle in more traditional fields like business. Many neurodivergent adults I meet are engaged in the arts in some form or another. They seem to concentrate more there than in most fields, although I assume representation is high in a few non-arts areas like IT, technical support and engineering (or any field that doesn't require a lot of social interaction or rapid, unexpected changes arising from switching from task to task.

I guess I answered my own question right there.

 

[chubber]

I like to think attachment theory has a good explanation as to what is going on, especially when it comes to alienation, as you put it. In short, if you are not fed the needed "modern" survival "social" skills as a child up to the age of 5. It will be a constant battle. Although they say now after more research, teenagers also have changes, and requires the necessary guidance.

My suspicion is, someone who probably identifies as someone on the spectrum, might not always be genetically. Maybe the lack of social "nutrition" as I would put it.

Adult Attachment Theory and Research

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I like to think attachment theory has a good explanation as to what is going on, especially when it comes to alienation, as you put it. In short, if you are not fed the needed "modern" survival "social" skills as a child up to the age of 5. It will be a constant battle. Although they say now after more research, teenagers also have changes, and requires the necessary guidance.

My suspicion is, someone who probably identifies as someone on the spectrum, might not always be genetically. Maybe the lack of social "nutrition" as I would put it.

Adult Attachment Theory and Research

Perhaps. But for every kid who simply wasn't socialized properly, there was probably a neurodivergent child whose parents and/or adult mentors went to every effort to socialize them properly, and the kid still ended up an alienated adult with no support.

Be careful, there's a slight ableist tinge to what you're saying, although I realize it's not coming from a place of malice so much as one of ignorance. The old wisdom that autistic people just need the proper socialization as children needs to be reevaluated. It's akin to the now discarded theory that autistic kids are a result of "refrigerator mothers"

Problem with that line of thinking is that it doesn't take into account the burnout that hits a lot of autistics in adulthood (especially as they get closer to middle age). Many of them, especially the ones belonging to the older generations that lacked awareness, data on autism, and support services/accomodations, were "successfully" socialized (AKA they learned to mask to survive what to them was a very scary and unpredictable minefield). That constant masking takes a great toll on autistic people, and many report burning out in adulthood because they simply can't continue to cope with the physical and mental toll taken. It wears on one over the years. So much of autism research and news has been focused on childhood autism that people are really only now beginning to understand the struggles that continue (and how they change) into adulthood for autistics and other neurodivergents. The fact that more people are being diagnosed now in adulthood helps, but we have a long fucking way to go in understanding how hard that shit really is. You probably have encountered dozens of struggling adult autists, yet you wouldn't know because I bet every one of them was running at full power to mask any quirk or behavior that might get them ousted from yet another job or social circle.

Yes, I am sure there are many out there who find the label attractive or comforting and are not on the spectrum, but also, please consider that many of the ones who claim it and appear fairly "normal" or well-adjusted in society likely do have it and are masking successfully enough to be taken for "normal" or faking it. Just be aware that those people who actually have it are fighting very hard battles. Raising awareness will ultimately lead to more undiagnosed people getting the evaluations and support they need, and hopefully will lead to fewer "poseurs" self-diagnosing or wearing the label like a new trend. Curtailing awareness will mean more confused people and fake autists claiming the label.

 

[chubber]

Thanks for teaching me the term "refrigerator" mothers.

My guess, then would be, being artist requires one to be alone. It is accepted to be alone when doing one's art. No one questions the artist. Sure there are artisans that work as teams. But as work with pressure, is it the same thing?

Is that part of your conclusion?

To address the "line of thinking", once the person is past the age of 5, there is no "nutrition" that is going to "cure" these people with the struggle, only coping mechanisms. And these coping mechanisms I think is what you are referring to as their struggles. It is not a matter of simply just give and their problems goes away. Nor was it implied. I thought I made that clear that the critical time is up to the age of 5. After that it is, a very real struggle and this is what Attachment Theory is all about. I can't talk about "refrigerator" mothers. Although it does seem like a chapter from one of the many types explained under Attachment Theory as to why the child experience anxiety and later in adulthood.

So the child that was clinically diagnosed as someone on the spectrum, and they went through everything as parents to aid and assist them. How does one teach being secure in a child, without reaching high levels of narcissism. There was a book written in the 70s based on Attachment theory on how to lower the likely hood of the outcomes. I've been trying to get my hands on a copy. Sorry I am derailing, these people, who feel alienated, are you saying, it is because people do not have empathy for them? because empathy means, feel in to you, you literally had to experience it to understand it. Hence why "Empaths" were really at some point in their life the opposite. So I would think, "warmth" will still help. If you find yourself in a difficult position to communicate, you will feel frustrated surely? Is it communication? Lack of verbalising, the constant ownership of their parents and caretakers? Their lack of self identity? Is it the way they were brought up, e.g. the care givers, thinks, they will teach them skills, because that is what society will value them for instead of allowing/outcomes based, to see what the child could grow into? For example, they teach the child an artisan skill, because the care givers think the child can be nothing more than that. And the child or adult, when older, realises that they are stuck with the only skills taught, but wished for more?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Mind Maverick]

Define neurodivergent here. I mean, depending on context, that can mean a lot.

 

[Galizia]

You can just look at the unemployment rates for disabled people to understand my question. The rate for disabled people is well above the average, and is even higher among people with autism, people with disorders affecting nervous system threat response, and people with other various developmental disorders (AKA anyone not autistic but still falling under the umbrella of neurodivergence). That's not even considering the number of "discouraged workers" on the neurodivergent spectrum (discouraged workers are not typically included in labor department unemployment rate statistics). A multitude of autists and neurodivergents who have already given up. Not to mention the high suicide rate among neurodivergents and autistics--that's just counting the ones who were diagnosed and known of when they decided to kill themselves--there's likely a much higher number of neurodivergents who have committed suicide as a result of feeling totally alienated and out of sync with the rest of their species.

Chronic unemployment is high among neurodivergents and many struggle in more traditional fields like business. Many neurodivergent adults I meet are engaged in the arts in some form or another. They seem to concentrate more there than in most fields, although I assume representation is high in a few non-arts areas like IT, technical support and engineering (or any field that doesn't require a lot of social interaction or rapid, unexpected changes arising from switching from task to task.
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I guess I answered my own question right there.

I agree with you, I myself with the same problem and nowhere else but in the arts is difficult to realize.

 

[Earl Grey]

This isn't based off any study at all, just my guess.

I will shorten neurotypical to "NT" and neurodivergent to "ND".

Art is very old, and human history has been very closely tied to art. Cave paintings and ancient music was one of the best tools for us to bond and relate to each other, it's a "human experience" (something many NDs especially yearn for, feeling as alienated as they are), and an easy method for expression, as well as a source for catharsis. It is something very tried and true.

I think it's a simple yet fundamental thing our brains are wired to turn to when placed under similar circumstances / stresses. I don't think it was a coincidence that when COVID struck and lockdowns were put into place, a lot of people took up pet projects in baking or painting or pottery or whatever it is. There's a parallel there- when people lost their jobs, were confined to their homes and the same people, the same faces (which a lot of NDs, especially ones who are less independent, also experience), a good number of them turned to art (or some other form of creativity/creation) to stay sane and maintain their mental, spiritual, emotional health.

There is also something great about being able to create and find meaning that the brain craves, and art is a great medium for that- when they lack the 'typical' modern outlets in the form of jobs and social accomplishments, art can be an excellent stand-in. People need something to do to feel fulfilled and art is something you can do on your own time, pace, schedule, etc- something that can be very mentally helpful to an individual who is already struggling a lot with regulating and keeping up other areas of their lives- being able to look at something and have a sense of "I did that. I made that."

That being said, I think it's not necessarily strictly tied to / coming from NDs being ND, but rather the (at times, frankly oppressive) circumstances NDs often find themselves in due to the lack of accessibility society affords them. I'd side-eyed several 'telltale diagnostic criteria' of certain disorders because people were talking about it as if it was a result of the disorder rather than a result of the mismanagement of it- yet pointing at the symptom as a determinant, as THE determinant that decides whether or not you have the disorder at all. I end up thinking, "If you, a NT, were faced by the same kind of treatment and pressure the NDs were by society, you'd develop this "symptom" too." * and I think ND folks in art is also an example of that, with COVID proving it further- it's more fundamental and universal than we think it is.


* to explain this further, it's bad, because it results in things like "What? You don't have meltdowns? You don't look autistic," "You don't have RSD and you're super confident. You can't be ADHD, just forgetful or something," - as an example, lack of meltdowns doesn't mean no autism, it means great management or great coping mechanisms, and unfortunately for many it's the latter instead of the former. NTs also have "screaming meltdowns" if you put them under enough stress too.

 

[Coriolis]

why? seems to be a disproportionate amount of them in the arts. And of the ones who tried to pursue business and "normal" careers, many seem to be failed artists or in the least are hobbyists in various arts.

I suspect there may be more neuro-divergent folks in "normal" careers like business than you think. As others have mentioned, they can develop effective coping strategies that allow them not only to be productive in such environments, but also to fly under the radar and appear neurotypical. But even the most effective coping strategies are not the same as not having a challenge to cope with. This is similar to LGBT people. Most people probably work or otherwise interact with people in both groups without realizing it. Both groups may feel more comfortable outing themselves in the arts communities and professions, where there is more appreciation of diversity and the environment is more flexible.