Was it acceptable for the SEAL that killed bin Laden to "canoe" his corpse?

[DiscoBiscuit]

On canoeing:

The reason they do this:

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'll get us started with a moderate position on the matter.

If the doctrine is to always finish a downed fighter with a security shot, just use that shot to shoot them in the head. Nothing to be gained from needlessly antagonizing folks shooting corpses.

Conversely I think security shots to the head of injured fighters sends the appropriate message.

 

[yeghor]

I'll get us started with a moderate position on the matter.

If the doctrine is to always finish a downed fighter with a security shot, just use that shot to shoot them in the head. Nothing to be gained from needlessly antagonizing folks shooting corpses.

Conversely I think security shots to the head of injured fighters sends the appropriate message.

Taking pleasure in gore is a sign of sadistic personalities. That way you can also justify beheading of captured enemy soldiers.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Taking pleasure in gore is a sign of sadistic personalities. That way you can also justify beheading of captured enemy soldiers.

And you could use your ideological attachment to egalitarianism to starve Ukraine killing millions like stalin. That doesnt mean I expect you to be that way just b/c you have egalitarianism in you.

Having those traits can be beneficial when tempered by reason.

I don't buy into the assumption that if you have ANY of those traits you are per se corrupted, those those traits need to be erased from the populace.

This is how you get the erasure of boys leading to our current crisis.

 

[yeghor]

And you could use your ideological attachment to egalitarianism to starve Ukraine killing millions like stalin. That doesnt mean I expect you to be that way just b/c you have egalitarianism in you.

Having those traits can be beneficial when tempered by reason.

I don't buy into the assumption that if you have ANY of those traits you are per se corrupted, those those traits need to be erased from the populace.

This is how you get the erasure of boys leading to our current crisis.

Well some can keep it in check, we call them STJs (sheepdog), and some cannot and we call the STPs (wolves).

A significant portion of the STP "natural" behaviour in the modern world is now considered criminal activity, whereas it would've been OK in the medieval/barbaric world. That's why there are rules to modern warfare to prevent unnecessary bloodshed and violence on combatants and civilians.

And that's why mercenaries flock to warzones because they are good at killing and some even enjoy it and can do it legally.

American Sniper - Three types of people

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

If we're being honest, the arguments against those traits are strikingly similar in effect if the not tone to the one drop of black blood arguments in the Jim Crow south.

 

[yeghor]

If we're being honest, the arguments against those traits are strikingly similar in effect if the not tone to the one drop of black blood arguments in the Jim Crow south.

Do you mean to say that xSTPs are being oppressed in the modern world?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Im talking about male aggression. I left the utility of MBTI behind a while ago and don't care to go into discussions of its specifics.

 

[yeghor]

Im talking about male aggression. I left the utility of MBTI behind a while ago and don't care to go into discussions of its specifics.

Hypermasculinity and antisocial behaviour are prevalent traits among prison inmates, cause it is correlated with a tendency for impulsivity and petty crime. Radical feminism OTOH is pushing the society towards hyperfemininity, which would consider even the moderate masculine behaviour as criminal offense and oppression.

So moderation is the key. Bravery, strength and courage are acceptable expressions of masculinity whereas cruelty and thirst for violence are not as they are antisocial i.e. they are detrimental to collective leaving hence to the state/society, which is a collective construct.

Usually hypermasculine people try to satisfy those urges thru extreme sports, online pvp shooter games or by joining criminal organizations or by becoming mercenaries. I agree that radical feminism is going overboard with restricting expression of healthy masculinity though, like it's trying to trample and knock down masculinity, which to their eyes equate to patriarchy. I don't condone "Fight Club" style machismo either. I find both extremes detrimental to collective living.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Hypermasculinity and antisocial behaviour are prevalent traits among prison inmates, cause it is correlated with a tendency for impulsivity and petty crime. Radical feminism OTOH is pushing the society towards hyperfemininity, which would consider even the moderate masculine behaviour as criminal offense and oppression.

So moderation is the key. Bravery, strength and courage are acceptable expressions of masculinity whereas cruelty and thirst for violence are not as they are antisocial i.e. they are detrimental to collective leaving hence to the state/society, which is a collective construct.

Usually hypermasculine people try to satisfy those urges thru extreme sports, online pvp shooter games or by joining criminal organizations or by becoming mercenaries. I agree that radical feminism is going overboard with restricting expression of healthy masculinity though, like it's trying to trample and knock down masculinity, which to their eyes equate to patriarchy. I don't condone "Fight Club" style machismo either. I find both extremes detrimental to collective living.

You cant decouple masculine bravery and thirst for violence.

 

[yeghor]

You cant decouple masculine bravery and thirst for violence.

That's difference between xSTJs (sheepdog) and the xSTPs (predators). xSTJs are better-adjusted to collective living then xSTPs.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

That's difference between xSTJs (sheepdog) and the xSTPs (predators). xSTJs are better-adjusted to collective living then xSTPs.

Nobodies better than anybody.

 

[yeghor]

Nobodies better than anybody.

Better in the sense that xSTJs are less prone to behaviour considered criminal and antisocial.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Better in the sense that xSTJs are less prone to behaviour considered criminal and antisocial.

I don't know last time I checked I didnt see the FBI worrying about MBTI in crime statistics

 

[Coriolis]

So moderation is the key. Bravery, strength and courage are acceptable expressions of masculinity whereas cruelty and thirst for violence are not as they are antisocial i.e. they are detrimental to collective leaving hence to the state/society, which is a collective construct.

Usually hypermasculine people try to satisfy those urges thru extreme sports, online pvp shooter games or by joining criminal organizations or by becoming mercenaries. I agree that radical feminism is going overboard with restricting expression of healthy masculinity though, like it's trying to trample and knock down masculinity, which to their eyes equate to patriarchy. I don't condone "Fight Club" style machismo either. I find both extremes detrimental to collective living.

Now this I can agree with, especially the highlighted. Compounding the problem is that, over the years, many less desirable traits have been linked with feminity/women, while more desirable ones have been linked with masculinity/men, even when they are simply fundamental human traits. Men have no monopoly on bravery, strength, and courage, though both society and to some extent biology may channel them into different manifestations or expressions of that.

You cant decouple masculine bravery and thirst for violence.

Decoupling that makes the difference between civilization and the wild. There is more than one way to express masculinity, not all of them constructive.

The Masculinity Debate Needs Johnny Cash

Today, over 50 years later, swagger and bravado too often masquerade as masculinity, and folks will tell you there is a war on manhood. But take it from me, someone who grew up surrounded by salt-of-the-earth, flawed-but-humble men: The problem isn’t masculinity. The problem is a version of manhood that refuses to take personal responsibility and celebrates a win-at-all-costs triumphalism.

These vices are what make conversation and cooperation impossible. These vices are what wreck families, churches, communities, and countries.

If we’re to make any progress on gun violence, or a host of other issues tearing our country apart, we must identify the real source of the problem. The conflict is between pride and humility. The conflict is between those who own their faults and confess them and those who refuse to admit wrong. It’s between hearts that are softened by the plight of their neighbor and those that are hardened.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Now this I can agree with, especially the highlighted. Compounding the problem is that, over the years, many less desirable traits have been linked with feminity/women, while more desirable ones have been linked with masculinity/men, even when they are simply fundamental human traits. Men have no monopoly on bravery, strength, and courage, though both society and to some extent biology may channel them into different manifestations or expressions of that.

Decoupling that makes the difference between civilization and the wild. There is more than one way to express masculinity, not all of them constructive.

Thanks for no true scotsmanning what it means to be a man.

I can decide what that means on my own.

 

[Coriolis]

Thanks for no true scotsmanning what it means to be a man.

I can decide what that means on my own.

So can I. Reread my last sentence. That is the antithesis of the "true scotsman" approach.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

So can I. Reread my last sentence. That is the antithesis of the "true scotsman" approach.

I don't go in for polyanna bullshit.

And neither does this American moment.

 

[Coriolis]

I don't go in for polyanna bullshit.

And neither does this American moment.

You don't speak for "this moment". I can agree about Pollyanna, though. A good example of making the feminine look rather ridiculous.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

You don't speak for "this moment". I can agree about Pollyanna, though. A good example of making the feminine look rather ridiculous.

I'm not speaking for it I'm speaking about it.