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The psychology of hunters

Lark

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I've always wondered if gun fetishism, not directly correlated to hunting but sometimes it is, and hunting are within the range which Erich Fromm described as necrophilious, that was in contrast to biophilious, the biophile was someone who was attracted to living things, living systems, ecosystems, biosystems and was maybe extroverted, concerned to create and maintain relationships, bonds, kept pets etc. whereas the opposite tendency was drawn to dead things, inanimate things, objects or people and living things which they had been able to objectify, so loving your gun better than people (that was a Nirvana song wasnt it?) would be necrophile, wanting to kill a stag and turn it into a trophy for the wall of your house would be changing it from a living breathing thing to a dead object.

Although Fromm thought that biophilia was undoubtably a good thing and necrophilia a bad thing, much like Freud's eros and thanatos or life force and death wish I might add, he did think that both were signs of human growth, growth was unstoppable and irresistable but if it didnt happen one way, the beneficient way, it would happen another, the malign way. The malign way was a case of being human, all too human, as opposed to being subhuman or superhuman, although I'd part company depending on what the action was because I do think evil exists and I do think evil can be subhuman.

Although that is perhaps a pretty stark way of putting it, I've read some things written by Hemingway or others which appealed to me about blood sports, risk, safaris, hunts and subjecting yourself to terror and forced yourself to realise how weak, humble and defenceless mankind really is in the face of nature red in tooth and claw. The bull run for instance I think is defenceable, bull fighting too. Although I think both are horrible.

All I know is that I'd have to think longer, harder and more about it before I could say the final word on that.
 

ceecee

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I see deer starve to death every winter and get hit by cars all year around, right on my own property and leave baby deer to fend for themselves. As long as the venison is being used and this isn't simply done to kill something, I have no problem with licensed deer hunting. Would you prefer they were exterminated in some other fashion to control the population? Because that is a problem in itself, regardless of anyone's feelings on hunting and hunters.
 

GIjade

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I see deer starve to death every winter and get hit by cars all year around, right on my own property and leave baby deer to fend for themselves. As long as the venison is being used and this isn't simply done to kill something, I have no problem with licensed deer hunting. Would you prefer they were exterminated in some other fashion to control the population? Because that is a problem in itself, regardless of anyone's feelings on hunting and hunters.

I was waiting for this post. There are non-lethal methods for controlling deer populations, but hunters would tell you otherwise. It isn't in their blood-thirsty interest to consider such a thing,
 

ceecee

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I was waiting for this post. There are non-lethal methods for controlling deer populations, but hunters would tell you otherwise. It isn't in their blood-thirsty interest to consider such a thing,

Yes, there are methods for non-lethal control population in urban and suburban environments because deer can become a public safety issue. Are you good with paying for contraception, sterilization and relocation? Where will they be relocated to? Volunteers to help with the other options? I assume you will be putting in your time if it's a pet cause of yours. They bring in sharpshooters for this purpose too, it's done here in Michigan and that's also expensive and not a long term solution. Chronic wasting disease, how does your state handle that in free range deer populations? By the way, I'm not a hunter, my husband isn't one either but I do know exactly what happens when the deer population isn't addressed, especially in a less populated, farming area.
 

GIjade

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Yes, there are methods for non-lethal control population in urban and suburban environments because deer can become a public safety issue. Are you good with paying for contraception, sterilization and relocation?
Yeah, because I care about them.

Where will they be relocated to? Volunteers to help with the other options? I assume you will be putting in your time if it's a pet cause of yours.
If they did it here where I live, I would. But they don't.
They bring in sharpshooters for this purpose too, it's done here in Michigan and that's also expensive and not a long term solution. Chronic wasting disease, how does your state handle that in free range deer populations? By the way, I'm not a hunter, my husband isn't one either but I do know exactly what happens when the deer population isn't addressed, especially in a less populated, farming area.
So do I. But people just accept hunting as the only way to stop those populations from causing those problems. And sharpshooters are almost as bad. But at least they kill the deer right away instead of letting it suffer until it dies.
 

Lark

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I see deer starve to death every winter and get hit by cars all year around, right on my own property and leave baby deer to fend for themselves. As long as the venison is being used and this isn't simply done to kill something, I have no problem with licensed deer hunting. Would you prefer they were exterminated in some other fashion to control the population? Because that is a problem in itself, regardless of anyone's feelings on hunting and hunters.

So long as its not something like the deer hunt they had on King of The Hill once where they sat on the top of a big scaffold and there was a feeder on the bottom that brought out all the deer for a barrel shoot, although I'm not even that opposed to that, it just seems closer to factory farming than I like.

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I was waiting for this post. There are non-lethal methods for controlling deer populations, but hunters would tell you otherwise. It isn't in their blood-thirsty interest to consider such a thing,

Blood thirsty interest? :happy2::happy2:

I never considered myself blood thirsty before....:newwink:
 

cascadeco

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I think my views are similar to ceecee. I despise those who hunt for sport, for trophy, and I think I probably consider those who 'hunt' in game parks to be lower lifeforms.

I don't have a personal issue with those who hunt with the intent of using the meat for food - there are folks I know here in Colorado who do so. They will fill their freezers with the cuts of meat and use it throughout the winter and beyond.

Do I enjoy animals being killed and seeing the pain? Not particularly, in fact not at all. I am not a hunter; but I don't know that true hunters 'enjoy' it either. In historic societies/cultures there was often a great deal of reverence and respect and gratitude for the natural world, not something those hunters took lightly. They recognized the fine balance their own lives held within the context of the greater natural kingdom. But I can comprehend and appreciate using the meat and other elements for sustenance and survival - just like our ancestors. And having seen diseased animals in the wild, in pain, and having seen animals being hunted and killed by other animals, for their own survival, I know that physical pain is a reality in the animal kingdom. Do I enjoy seeing a rabbit or impala being killed by a predator, still alive as that is occurring? Not particularly, I feel very sad for those animals. But I also don't want the wolf or lion to starve and die. It's all part of life on this planet from my pov.

That's wider lens though, historic, but the principles can still apply for those who take hunting seriously and those hunters who still have great appreciation for the wilderness and life around them, and empathy for it. Those hunters exist.

But sure, the crazed 'hunters' exist also.
 

Chrysanthe

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If anything, a focus on solving issues related to domesticated animals meant for human consumption, in one way or another, is more necessary. Not completely abolish it, because hunting wouldn't sustain the high populations that happen to be plague the Earth. What I actually despise is when the American media criticizes countries like Japan and Iceland for hunting a variety of "protected" animals yet can't seem to control their own treatment of animals wisely.

As for hunting for trophies, whether exotic or not, I can't say I care. Since I am not an animal, I cannot say this for a fact, but I wouldn't think they would care about dying (lacking a a sense of time and all, and so only experiencing the pain of death as it happens, not expecting it) as much as being unable to live their life freely through their natural animal instincts. What would that consist of? Pretty much anything that isn't factory farming. I think that even those who kill Lions and Pandas aren't as bad as those who decide to abuse their human power through animal enslavement. Of course, I don't care much about animals so I can't say I find one animal better than the other unless it's a human (naturally), so I measure the morality of actions against animals by what they experience (which is impossible to understand, but can still be at least assumed) , not what humans get off on (going to the zoo).

And so what if the ecosystem becomes unbalanced as a result? The universe balances itself out anyways.

Is there something else I'm not getting, that makes my opinion on this matter undesirable? (people have always scolded me for being so "uncaring" when I tell them how I feel about this.)
 

jcloudz

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that was incredibly hard to watch. if i lived in a hunter gathering society, im certain i would be used to something like this but everything is farmed, raised an handed to us, plus living with a large animal myself, that I forget is a dog but seems more like a cow chewing its cud, it hits me in the feels.

anyway

I love animals but i Love quality Meat as well. I dont feel we should depend on any one source to supply us our sustenance. that would be giving up control. it creates some hierarchy where quality falls to the people on top, gradually scraps with little nutrition, possibly tained an shit fall to the people on the bottom. nutrition is valuable in human development, an keeping healthy. I dont see anything wrong with hunters getting their own food. get over it.
 
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Lark

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Its the people who start with animals and graduate to hunting people that you want to worry about.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I was waiting for this post. There are non-lethal methods for controlling deer populations, but hunters would tell you otherwise. It isn't in their blood-thirsty interest to consider such a thing,

I get it. You don't like hunters. You look down upon their activity. Relegating it to blood-thirst. Are you open to any other option or is this thread self-masturbatory?
 

GIjade

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Do I enjoy animals being killed and seeing the pain? Not particularly, in fact not at all. I am not a hunter; but I don't know that true hunters 'enjoy' it either. In historic societies/cultures there was often a great deal of reverence and respect and gratitude for the natural world, not something those hunters took lightly. They recognized the fine balance their own lives held within the context of the greater natural kingdom. But I can comprehend and appreciate using the meat and other elements for sustenance and survival - just like our ancestors. And having seen diseased animals in the wild, in pain, and having seen animals being hunted and killed by other animals, for their own survival, I know that physical pain is a reality in the animal kingdom. Do I enjoy seeing a rabbit or impala being killed by a predator, still alive as that is occurring? Not particularly, I feel very sad for those animals. But I also don't want the wolf or lion to starve and die. It's all part of life on this planet from my pov.

The thing is, we aren't animals in the wild and we aren't our ancestors. We've evolved beyond that. We're more civilized now and we, unlike the predators in the wild, have a choice.
 

GIjade

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Of course, I don't care much about animals so I can't say I find one animal better than the other unless it's a human (naturally), so I measure the morality of actions against animals by what they experience (which is impossible to understand, but can still be at least assumed) , not what humans get off on (going to the zoo).

And so what if the ecosystem becomes unbalanced as a result? The universe balances itself out anyways.

Is there something else I'm not getting, that makes my opinion on this matter undesirable? (people have always scolded me for being so "uncaring" when I tell them how I feel about this.)

I should have noted in my original post that INTP's should just forego reading it.

- - - Updated - - -

Its the people who start with animals and graduate to hunting people that you want to worry about.

Yeah, I do.
 

cascadeco

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The thing is, we aren't animals in the wild and we aren't our ancestors. We've evolved beyond that. We're more civilized now and we, unlike the predators in the wild, have a choice.

I don't think I necessarily see us as that segregated from our ancestors or that separate from the rest of life on earth, but I can appreciate and respect your opinion, as I know it's not entirely uncommon. I just look at things a bit differently. But I see your pov.
 

Lark

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I should have noted in my original post that INTP's should just forego reading it.

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Yeah, I do.

It's a troubling prospect isnt it?

I think there's way more criminal elements at large than people realise.
 

GIjade

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It's a troubling prospect isnt it?

I think there's way more criminal elements at large than people realise.

Yeah, the cruel treatment of animals isn't limited to slaughterhouses and trophy hunters. And it's a whole other topic to discuss - that of people who start with killing animals and graduate to killing humans.
 

Lark

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Yeah, the cruel treatment of animals isn't limited to slaughterhouses and trophy hunters. And it's a whole other topic to discuss - that of people who start with killing animals and graduate to killing humans.

Then again I'd say that there's people who merely killing animals wouldnt be enough for them to begin with, I've heard the human safari is a real thing, its happened in parts of war torn eastern europe by all accounts, some Russian poet claimed to have engaged in it and war tourism.
 

GIjade

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Then again I'd say that there's people who merely killing animals wouldnt be enough for them to begin with, I've heard the human safari is a real thing, its happened in parts of war torn eastern europe by all accounts, some Russian poet claimed to have engaged in it and war tourism.

I don't know about that. Will have to research it.
 

gromit

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As a vegetarian, I have more repsect for people who kill the animals they eat for meat than people who want some prepared cut from a grocery store, don't want to think about where it came from. At least those hunters are able to face the fact that they are taking a life to sustain their own.

I know several people who hunt. They eat the meat. They shoot to kill and minimize suffering. I think there is some pride in what they accomplish, pride in doing having done something difficult.

Killing for sport and especially relishing in the death, that is disgusting.
 
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