• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Student Loan Forgiveness?

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,048
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The NYTimes email this morning said this about Biden's position on student loan debt..

"He criticized the idea, favored by some Democrats, of using executive action to forgive $50,000 in student debt per borrower: “I think that’s pretty questionable,” he said. “I’d be unlikely to do that.” But he suggested he was open to forgiving $10,000."
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,048
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'd rather have $50K forgiveness, but I'll take $10K
 

Kephalos

J.M.P.P. R.I.P. B5: RLOAI
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
692
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
Pro: 1) it improves the net worth of many households; 2) cancelling the debt would improve their ability to get mortgages and other debt; 3) most student debt is held by the Federal Government anyway and even if cancellig this debt affects the government's balance sheet, it's a lot easier than if it were held privately.

Con: 1) It does nothing to improve the cost of higher education going forward (like tuition levels, administrative costs, funding for research, salaries, pensions etc.), not does it prevent for future students from contracting student loans and accumulating student debt (it's not a reform of how to finance a college or postgraduate education, another debt forgiveness will be called for in a few decades); 2) a lot of student debt is owed by households in the upper half of the income distribution, which makes sense for many reasons, such as very poor people don't have student debt because they never went to college, or people with advanced degrees (masters degress, medical degrees, law degrees, doctoral degrees, etc.) tend to be higher in the income distribution and also accumulate more student debt; 3) payments of a lot of student debt programs depend on income, so the higher earners with student debt make most of the payments; 3) some student debt is held by private companies, so to cancel that debt, the Federal Government would have to purchase it first. (although it wouldn't be such a big expenditure at a fair price for it).

But, students with very wealthy parents can go to college without getting into much debt, so there's that. Overall, I think that free public four year colleges would be a better policy going forward, and much more progressive (in the sense that it benefits people in the lower end of the income distribution than in the upper end) than debt forgiveness. And you could combine that with means-tested debt forgiveness.

Final note: the 2010s were a decade of very low inflation, and that is also a factor in the burden of any debt.
 

Andy

Supreme High Commander
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
1,211
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
I think the higher education system has some serious problems. When I went to university in the 90s I can remember a lot of people protesting against the abolition of student loans, but I never joined in. Some people would have called me complacent, but I considered myself to be a realist. Everyone supported the governments drive to push ever more people into higher education, but nobody seemed to understand that would inevitably result in the loss of grants and the introduction loans. It had to - the more people went into higher education, the more expensive it got to fund. The protesters wanted their toasted buttered on both sides and the didn't want any greasy stains when they put it down. Hell, you could argue that those of us going to university were all part of the problem. At least I managed to not be a hypocrite about it.

The other thing that inevitably resulted from the increased number of graduates was the devaluation of degrees, creating a double whammy. If someone asked me whether or not they should go to university today, I would advise them to think about it very hard first. Maybe take a year out, get a real job for awhile and see how you feel about it after that. Some sort of apprenticeship sounds wise. After that, they might not care about higher education anymore.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,963
In my book genuine high education is never a problem. However it is the job of the education authorities to cull all those schools that are evidently not providing genuine education or they are providing a degree that obviously has no use in the world/country. Since in a way those schools count as fraud, they suck out money and basically provide nothing in return. What then creates problems for the entire system on the long run.
 

Tellenbach

in dreamland
Joined
Oct 27, 2013
Messages
6,088
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
1. Do you think student loan forgiveness is necessary?

Oxygen, food, and water are necessary. You can even make an argument that human interaction is necessary, but few else things are.

2. Do you think the government can afford to give student loan forgiveness?

When you say "government", what you really mean are tax payers. No, tax payers should not be on the hook for every bad decision that people make. If you can't afford a loan, don't take out a loan. No one put a gun to your head and forced you to do the paperwork to get a loan. That's all on you.

3. How would you properly implement the forgiveness?

The word "forgiveness" suggests a voluntary act, but it's anything but. The millions of taxpayers who have to foot the bill for this reckless behavior don't have a say in the matter. I do not want to pay for your reckless and horrible decisions.

4. If you feel this plan wouldn't work, how would you offer reforms to education costs?

Get government out of education. The increase in educational costs is directly linked to government subsidy of education. When colleges are able to charge more for education (because they know the government will pay for it), they'll do so. If they know that students can't pay for education (if the costs are too high), they'll charge less. It's simple economics.
 

Maou

Mythos
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
6,124
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The NYTimes email this morning said this about Biden's position on student loan debt..

"He criticized the idea, favored by some Democrats, of using executive action to forgive $50,000 in student debt per borrower: “I think that’s pretty questionable,” he said. “I’d be unlikely to do that.” But he suggested he was open to forgiving $10,000."

I noticed you said you would take $10k, but what will you do if he doesn't do anything about student loan forgiveness?
 
Top