Rap music and white people

[Stigmata]

The purpose of low culture is to demoralise the high culture of the West.

So the purpose of Rap is to demoralise Classical, click Roll Over Beethoven (Remastered 2009) - YouTube.

The fruits of low culture are narcissism and depression. While the fruits of high culture are the Western Enlightenment, and the literate individual.

So low culture is cool, and high culture is passe.

Well I suppose this post confirms for me that my previous mental image of you trekking through the Australian outback in khaki hot pants while listening to an NWA tape on one of the world's last functioning cassette players, was wildly inaccurate.

 

[Mole]

Well I suppose this post confirms for me that my previous mental image of you trekking through the Australian outback in khaki hot pants while listening to an NWA tape on one of the world's last functioning cassette players, was wildly inaccurate.

Your image of me is partially true. I was raised in the city, but each weekend we would Bush walk in the extensive National Parks surrounding Sydney.

But not content with this, we built a city in the Bush, where the Bush comes right into the city itself, click Canberra, the Bush Capital - YouTube. So I live in a modern city, with a herd of wild kangaroos in my local park, and black swans on our lakes. It is more than I deserve.

But beware, we play up to the images Yankees have of us. Yankees are only interested in their fantasy of us, 'cause they are only interested the fantasy of themselves. And we don't dare wake them.

 

[Mole]

Simply compare the quality of Rap and the quality of Beethoven. There is no comparison in complexity or beauty. By comparison Rap is simple minded, ugly, and aggressive.

This is because they come from different cultures. Rap comes from a spoken culture, and Beethoven comes from a literate culture.

The spoken culture can't understand literate culture and so first disses literate culture, then seeks to aggressively replace it.

And so we get, "Move over Beethoven".

 

[Mole]

There are two types of literacy: the first is based on the written phonetic alphabet, and the second is based on written musical notation.

Beethoven wrote his music in musical notation before it was played. And even deaf, Beethoven wrote music.

Rap lacks the complexity of written musical notation, and is informed by hatred of literate culture.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

There are two types of literacy: the first is based on the written phonetic alphabet, and the second is based on written musical notation.

Beethoven wrote his music in musical notation before it was played. And even deaf, Beethoven wrote music.

Rap lacks the complexity of written musical notation, and is informed by hatred of literate culture.

Beethoven was a radical who supported the French Revolution and denounced Napoleon once he crowned himself Emperor.

Mozart wrote a song called Lick My Ass.

These guys were much more relatable and not the fuddy-duddy aristocrats (they usually weren't even from that class; their profession just meant they associated with those people) we're taught to think of them as, which you're kind of reinforcing here. (In general, staid mythologizing of historical figures makes history seem more boring than it really is.)

What you're doing isn't a great way to get people to listen to classical music, by the way.

If you think it doesn't take skill to write a really good rap song, you're delusional. It's like poetry when done well. Some of it is repetitive and kind of crappy, though.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The purpose of low culture is to demoralise the high culture of the West.

So the purpose of Rap is to demoralise Classical, click Roll Over Beethoven (Remastered 2009) - YouTube.

The fruits of low culture are narcissism and depression. While the fruits of high culture are the Western Enlightenment, and the literate individual.

So low culture is cool, and high culture is passe.

there are a lot of very intelligent rappers with a lot to say in the way of social commentary and philosophical undertones in their lyrics. for instance, the lyrics of RZA, GZA, Aesop Rock, to name a few (worth noting that these three rank high on lists based on the most extensive vocabularies amongst rappers). Lauryn Hill and the Fugees jump to mind as well.

I can't help but feel that your blanket dismissal of non-classical forms of music is based on a limited, narrow understanding of music overall (also let's not pretend all classical music began as highbrow--much was written by commission as "party" or chamber music for royal courts, or to commemorate Emperors and such). Rap is essentially a new form of folk music. Folk music throughout the last hundred+ years has often served a valuable purpose of questioning culture and social norms. It is hardly just there to debase and devalue prior tradition, although from some perspectives, it might do that at times. However, I would argue questioning and subverting the old is a healthy process in art and literature, lest we get stuck treading water and canonizing "the classics" at the cost of appreciating new ways and means of expression.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm going to have to send Mole copies of Illmatic and Liquid Swords.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Rappers, sorted by the size of their vocabulary

To me, it would be more useful to compare modern rappers to poets and playwrights like Shakespeare, Cummings, the Beats (many beat poets would often recite their poetry over jazz music in 50s jazz clubs), et al, than it is to compare them to classical music, which was laregely a different medium. The only superficial similarity between rap and classical is that rap is set to music, but it's largely a literary, lyrical tradition, IMO. Melodic and harmonic complexity is secondary to message in rap music. Whereas I would argue it's usually the other way around with classical (obviously there are exceptions, for instance in opera and choral music)

If anything, we ought to compare postmodern classical, jazz, avant garde, instrumental film scores, etc to older classical music. Comparing rap and other modern forms of popular music to classical is comparing apples to oranges. Different forms, different aims, different standards. It's unfair to measure one by the standards of the other.

 

[Mole]

there are a lot of very intelligent rappers with a lot to say in the way of social commentary and philosophical undertones in their lyrics. for instance, the lyrics of RZA, GZA, Aesop Rock, to name a few (worth noting that these three rank high on lists based on the most extensive vocabularies amongst rappers). Lauryn Hill and the Fugees jump to mind as well. I can't help but feel that your blanket dismissal of non-classical forms of music is based on a limited, narrow understanding of music overall (also let's not pretend all classical music began as highbrow--much was written by commission as "party" or chamber music for royal courts, or to commemorate Emperors and such). Rap is essentially a new form of folk music. Folk music throughout the last hundred+ years has often served a valuable purpose of questioning culture and social norms. It is hardly just there to debase and devalue prior tradition, although from some perspectives, it might do that at times. However, I would argue questioning and subverting the old is a healthy process in art and literature, lest we get stuck treading water and canonizing "the classics" at the cost of appreciating new ways and means of expression.

Spoken cultures have rich and complex languages, and complex social structures, even while they are illiterate, and are the birthplace of the tribe.

While literate societies based on the phonetic alphabet and musical notation, are the birthplace of the individual.

Universal literacy in prosperous societies is the birthplace of the Western Enlightenment of evidence and reason, of evidence based medicine. evidence based science, free speech and liberal democracy, evidence based economics, evidence based law, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Spoken cultures resent being merely the content of literacy, as in Anthropology, and hate literacy, and demonise literacy and blame literacy for the faults of spoken cultures.

Spoken cultures think intuitively, while literate cultures think counter intuitively. So the two cultures think differently.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Spoken cultures have rich and complex languages, and complex social structures, even while they are illiterate, and are the birthplace of the tribe.

While literate societies based on the phonetic alphabet and musical notation, are the birthplace of the individual.

Universal literacy in prosperous societies are the birthplace of the Western Enlightenment of evidence and reason, of evidence based medicine. evidence based science, free speech and liberal democracy, evidence based economics, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Spoken cultures resent being merely the content of literacy, as in Anthropology, and hate literacy and demonise literacy and blame it for the faults of spoken cultures.

I see no reason why both can't exist to form the ultimate culture and society. We can have respect for and lift up both the individual and the tribe, I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive or outweigh one another in significance.

 

[Mole]

I see no reason why both can't exist to form the ultimate culture and society. We can have respect for and lift up both the individual and the tribe, I don't think they need to be mutually exclusive or outweigh one another in significance.

It's true the New Age tells us we are all gifted, and the New Age tells us all cultures are good and equal. And we take this on faith.

 

[Jaguar]

Skinny, slim women got the camel toe within them
You can hump them, lift them, bend them, give them something to remember
Yell out timber when you fall through the chop shop.
Take a deep a breath and exhale your ex male friend, boyfriend was boring as hell
Now let me listen to the stories you tell and we can make moves like a person in jail.
On the low, hoe


Poetry, eh? Look out Uncle Walt, Outkast is coming for your Leaves of Grass collection.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

It's true the New Age tells us we are all gifted, and the New Age tells us all cultures are good and equal. And we take this on faith.

I didn't say all that.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Skinny, slim women got the camel toe within them
You can hump them, lift them, bend them, give them something to remember
Yell out timber when you fall through the chop shop.
Take a deep a breath and exhale your ex male friend, boyfriend was boring as hell
Now let me listen to the stories you tell and we can make moves like a person in jail.
On the low, hoe


Poetry, eh? Look out Uncle Walt, Outkast is coming for your Leaves of Grass collection.

At least Outkast didn't support the Mexican-American war.

 

[Jaguar]

At least Outkast didn't support the Mexican-American war.

LOOK! It's a bird, a plane, nah . . . . A RED HERRING!

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

LOOK! It's a bird, a plane, nah . . . . A RED HERRING!

Red Herring is cool and all, but what does she have to do with this?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

sounds like old fuddy duddy estj style cherry picking to prove a point.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Makeshift patriot
The flag shop is out of stock
I hang myself at half-mast
Makeshift patriot
The flag shop is out of stock
I hang myself via live telecast

Coming live from my own funeral
Beautiful weather offered a nice shine
Which is suitable for a full view of a forever-altered skyline
It's times like these I freestyle biased opinions every other sentence
My journalistic ethics slip when I pass them off as objective:
"Don't gimme that ethical shit."
I've got exclusive, explicit images to present to impressionable American kids
And it's time to show this world how big our edifice is

Sage Francis, "Makeshift Patriot"

 

[Jaguar]

Skinny, slim women got the camel toe within them
You can hump them, lift them, bend them, give them something to remember
Yell out timber when you fall through the chop shop.
Take a deep a breath and exhale your ex male friend, boyfriend was boring as hell
Now let me listen to the stories you tell and we can make moves like a person in jail.
On the low, hoe


Poetry, eh? Look out Uncle Walt, Outkast is coming for your Leaves of Grass collection.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

ygUDuh
ydoan
yunnuhstan
ydoan o
yunnuhstand dem
yguduh ged
yunnuhstan dem doidee
yguduh ged riduh
ydoan o nudn
LISN bud LISN
dem
gud
am
lidl yelluh bas
tuds weer goin
duhSIVILEYEzum

e.e. cummings, "ygUDuh"