Rap music and white people

[Mole]

In spite of official propaganda migration is a tragedy.

Migration is a tragedy because cultures continue to evolve and grow in their country of origin but remain set in aspic in their new country. And the more the migrants hang onto their own culture, the surer it is to die. So migrant cultures become museum cultures, who are used benignly by the host culture as entertainment, cuisine, and signalling virtue, all the time the death of migrant cultures is occurring around us.

We tell them, do we have a country for you? We have jobs for you and education for your children. And we don't tell them, the price is their own culture.

Migration is a deep and cruel lie.

So we have decided to address this. We have taken four sovereign countries with the same culture and the same Head of State, Queen Elizabeth II, and we will have open migration between these four countries. In this way migrants will be able to evolve and grow the same culture in each the four sovereign countries of CANZUK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Britain.

 

[Jaguar]

I feel like I'm rounding the turn on a track and a deer just jumped out in front of me.

 

[Norrsken]

I'm not black, so I feel like I can't really answer those specific questions, but I have listened to some 'black music' before and really enjoyed many of the artists within the rap (or other) genres very much so. So much of the pioneers of music are because of black artists, and it would do them a disservice to have huge groups of people to not be allowed to listen to them just because they're not black like them. Seems a bit much.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

In spite of official propaganda migration is a tragedy.

Migration is a tragedy because cultures continue to evolve and grow in their country of origin but remain set in aspic in their new country. And the more the migrants hang onto their own culture, the surer it is to die. So migrant cultures become museum cultures, who are used benignly by the host culture as entertainment, cuisine, and signalling virtue, all the time the death of migrant cultures is occurring around us.

We tell them, do we have a country for you? We have jobs for you and education for your children. And we don't tell them, the price is their own culture.

Migration is a deep and cruel lie.

So we have decided to address this. We have taken four sovereign countries with the same culture and the same Head of State, Queen Elizabeth II, and we will have open migration between these four countries. In this way migrants will be able to evolve and grow the same culture in each the four sovereign countries of CANZUK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Britain.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

My reaction:

 

[Mole]

Hey, Rock 'n' Roll killed the book, followed by the coup de grace by the net.

The book, literacy and print, enabled us to read silently alone, it limited our senses, while Rock 'n' Roll democratises our senses, and the net, with random access memory, connects everything to everything all the time.

Rock 'n' Roll came from the spoken culture of African Americans, and means 'rumpy-pumpy', or sexual intercourse, and is a successful assault on literacy.

The tragedy for African Americans is that their spoken culture is evolving and growing in their country of origin, from which they are cut off, but their spoken culture is severely limited and devalued in the literate culture of the USA.

Interestingly, we hide the effects of culture by calling it racism.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Hey, Rock 'n' Roll killed the book, followed by the coup de grace by the net.

.

 

[anticlimatic]

I had absolutely no idea where to put this but [MENTION=40907]permanent_temp[/MENTION] 's post reminded me of something I get mixed feedback on and I DO want to understand better...

Obviously, rap music can be a very "afrocentric" (I hope that is the correct word?) genre of music. And often times rappers will use a soft N word and things like that within their music. Over the years whites have enjoyed rap music as well, including having a guy like Eminem in the industry.

So I am obviously willing to hear anyone's educated responses, but I would really appreciate if some of our biracial or african-american/other ethnicities users would comment on this. You are the ones experiencing this issue and I want to understand it better. Because as said I notice some care and some do not.

1. Do you feel whites have a right to enjoy the music? Do you feel disdain when you see white people listening to "Black" music?

2. How do you feel about them, say like the Kendrick experience, when they rap or sing it back, using the exact lyrics even if they used the N word in the song?

3. How do you feel about white rappers in general?

4. What do you think appreciation of rap music should do for your community?

5. Is there a right or wrong way to handle this topic?

6. If you are comfortable, this is completely optional, what race do you identify with?

thank you for any responses.

Obviously country music can be very "anglo-centric" (I hope that's the right word). And oftentimes country singers will use a soft R-word (redneck) and things like that in their music. Over the years blacks have enjoyed country music as well, including having guys like Darius Rucker and Lil Nas in the industry.

So I am obviously willing to hear anyone's educated responses, but I would really appreciate if some of our white users would comment on this. You are the ones experiencing this issue and I want to understand it better. Because as said I notice some care and some do not.

1. Do you feel blacks have a right to enjoy the music? Do you feel disdain when you see black people listening to "White" music?

2. How do you feel about them, say like Darius' cover of Old Crow's "Wagon Wheel," using the exact lyrics?

3. How do you feel about black country artists in general?

4. What do you think appreciation of country music should do for your community?

 

[Jaguar]

Well, this thread got ratfucked quickly.

 

[Jaguar]

.

I forgot about this song.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

My take is, as long as you aren’t doing it for the sole purpose of “gaining points”, and out of mere appreciation and enjoyment, it’s all good.

Dominating, supplanting, and financial gain without attribution are central issues in cultural appropriation. It is a more diffuse version of any attribution. Imagine you write a story or song about your life experience and values. Maybe you write a song about your lover that is personal and has meaning. Someone comes along and changes a few details, makes a horrible arrangement that waters it down and then gets tons of money and fame for it - at the expense of your creation because the original meaning is now lost and like a subset of the stolen version.

I think it is important to celebrate and explore the artistic expressions of other cultures, but to do this with a mind of respect. If it is done in a way that is upsetting to people from within a culture enough that it could be a normative response, or even a response from someone close and valued, I can see adjusting the expression out of respect.

That doesn't mean that people cannot embrace through listening, learning, creating, and sharing in the ideas of other cultures. I actually think that is the deep path to world peace and understanding, but this is done by creating deeper connections and not by exploiting what is sensitive, valued, and holds particular meaning.

There are examples of which I am not certain if they are appropriation or not. There is one famous flutist who figured out how to play chromatically on a Native American flute, and that came into question. I would probably say if his literal instrument was connected with a tradition that held the object as sacred, perhaps find a different flute from a tribe more open to it? Also, he was not commercializing their native songs as his own, but creating his own expression. That is the sort of thing that I think could be adjusted as needed, so that he could still reach his creative goal and contribution.

I think there can be a First World Consumer culture mindset that finds it incomprehensible that anything could be "off-limits". I think that attitude is a problem. We don't necessarily have a right to consume everything. The underlying issue is respect. We need to value, embrace, learn, and integrate what we encounter, but not control, dominate, and exploit it.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[Tomb1]

Ten Crack Commandments (Biggie Smallz) is capitalism at its finest; say what sells even murder and misogyny.

It's the ten crack commandments, what?
[xxx] can't tell me nothing about this coke
Can't tell me nothing about this crack, this weed, my hustlin' [xxx]
[xxx] on the corner I ain't forget you [xxx], my triple beam [xxx]

I've been in this game for years, it made me an animal
It's rules to this [xxx], I wrote me a manual
A step-by-step booklet for you to get
Your game on track, not your wig pushed back
Rule Number Uno, never let no one know
How much dough you hold cause you know
The cheddar breed jealousy 'specially
If that man [xxx] up, get yo' [xxx] stuck up
Number 2, never let 'em know your next move
Don't you know Bad Boys move in silence and violence?
Take it from your highness
I done squeezed mad clips at these cats for their bricks and chips
Number 3, never trust no-bo-dy
Your moms'll set that [xxx] up, properly gassed up
Hoodied and masked up, [xxx], for that fast buck
She be laying in the bushes to light that [xxx] up
Number 4, I know you heard this before
Never get high on your own supply
Number 5, never sell no crack where you rest at
I don't care if they want a ounce, tell 'em bounce!
Number 6, that goddamn credit? Dead it
You think a crackhead paying you back, [xxx] forget it!
7, this rule is so underrated
Keep your family and business completely separated
Money and blood don't mix like 2 [xxx] and [xxx]
Find yourself in serious [xxx]
Number 8, never keep no weight on you!
Them cats that squeeze your guns can hold jums too
Number 9 shoulda been Number 1 to me,
If you ain't gettin' bagged stay the [xxx] from police
If [xxx] think you snitchin' they ain't trying to listen
They be sittin' in your kitchen, waiting to start hittin'
Number 10, a strong word called consignment
Strictly for live men, not for freshmen
If you ain't got the clientele, say "hell no!"
'Cause they gon' want they money rain sleet hail snow
Follow these rules you'll have mad bread to break up
If not, 24 years on the wake up
Slug hit your temple, watch your frame shake up
Caretaker did your makeup, when you passed
Your girl [xxx] my man Jake up, heard in three weeks
She sniffed a whole half of cake up
Heard she [xxx], and can hook a steak

 

[Virtual ghost]

By this logic English speaking people should never listen to my local pop folk music from the other side of the world. Since they have nothing to do with it. What is kinda stupid as a standard.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Dominating, supplanting, and financial gain without attribution are central issues in cultural appropriation. It is a more diffuse version of any attribution. Imagine you write a story or song about your life experience and values. Maybe you write a song about your lover that is personal and has meaning. Someone comes along and changes a few details, makes a horrible arrangement that waters it down and then gets tons of money and fame for it - at the expense of your creation because the original meaning is now lost and like a subset of the stolen version.

I think it is important to celebrate and explore the artistic expressions of other cultures, but to do this with a mind of respect. If it is done in a way that is upsetting to people from within a culture enough that it could be a normative response, or even a response from someone close and valued, I can see adjusting the expression out of respect.

That doesn't mean that people cannot embrace through listening, learning, creating, and sharing in the ideas of other cultures. I actually think that is the deep path to world peace and understanding, but this is done by creating deeper connections and not by exploiting what is sensitive, valued, and holds particular meaning.

There are examples of which I am not certain if they are appropriation or not. There is one famous flutist who figured out how to play chromatically on a Native American flute, and that came into question. I would probably say if his literal instrument was connected with a tradition that held the object as sacred, perhaps find a different flute from a tribe more open to it? Also, he was not commercializing their native songs as his own, but creating his own expression. That is the sort of thing that I think could be adjusted as needed, so that he could still reach his creative goal and contribution.

I think there can be a First World Consumer culture mindset that finds it incomprehensible that anything could be "off-limits". I think that attitude is a problem. We don't necessarily have a right to consume everything. The underlying issue is respect. We need to value, embrace, learn, and integrate what we encounter, but not control, dominate, and exploit it.

There was definitely an issue with white musicians taking stuff from black musicians and not giving credit. Led Zeppelin was supposed to be pretty notorious for this. I would understand why that would be cultural appropriation, but sometimes people throw around these terms too carelessly, I think. Like there are some people who seem to find something morally objectionable about putting lettuce, tomato and cheese on tacos instead of cilantro and onion like they do in Mexico.

 

[Jaguar]

Pharrell and Robin Thicke got sued by Marvin Gaye's family when they put out the song Blurred Lines.
Again, we're back to sampling.

This song:

Sampled from this song:

 

[GoggleGirl17]

I feel like it's common for people to sell out their own culture. It's not just "others" who exploit it.

 

[Red Memories]

ok gotta catch up here wow this got traction. thanks guys!

 

[Mind Maverick]

I think you can like and listen to anything you want. It's how people are treating each other, their work and their community and frankly, why does opinion matter? As in why are these questions even a thing?

To sum the topic up in a nutshell...

My reaction when any male at all is outside my car. So am I now sexist? Or is there simply a reputation of there being a threat?

 

[Jaguar]

How do you feel about Darius' cover of Old Crow's "Wagon Wheel"

It sucks, but this rocks.