Random Star Wars Thoughts

[Totenkindly]

lol

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I watched the trailer for The Acolyte, and was very underwhelmed. The first line is a callback to something from ANH, because everything has to be a callback. I don't think they embraced the possibilities of this setting. I don't think I care about Star Wars anymore.

I like Carrie-Ann Moss and Wookie Jedi. That's about it.

 

[Totenkindly]

I watched the trailer for The Acolyte, and was very underwhelmed. The first line is a callback to something from ANH, because everything has to be a callback. I don't think they embraced the possibilities of this setting. I don't think I care about Star Wars anymore.

I saw it.

Star Wars. Ho Hum.

I mean, it's just going to be a seed of an interesting idea muddied down into their Star Wars show format to be toothless and mind-numbingly average. I don't have any expectations nor do I really care about much now except for Andor S2 probably.

 

[Totenkindly]

 

[The Cat]

View attachment 30342

I think this explains how Darth Vader chose his secret Sith Apprentices.

 

[Totenkindly]

I've watched this for the thousandth time. I don't like some of the things this character does, and yet, much of this monologue I find relatable, for some reason. I'm not fully sure why.

This got me thinking. This would never happen, but could you imagine if the prequels were done in the tone and style of this show? They would have been great. I think a large problem with them was that Lucas was frequently unwilling to commit (look up the original idea for Padme's death which was much better) to the darkness the story required.

I think a lot of Star Wars has remained infantile because that was Lucas' personal vision, yet he also could not make up his mind on things. So we get a lot of stuff aimed at 10 year old understandings of the world, saturated with lots of really boring pseudo-political gobbledy gook to make it seem aimed at an older audience. But much of the political stuff Lucas added is so naive and/or pointlessly laborious and uninteresting to listen to.

The original trilogy threaded the needle best. Star Wars somehow managed to be fun -- kind of a space adventure film that didn't get particularly deep but had some resonant themes and character relationships via archetypes. TESB veered most effectively into the mess and darkness of what it means to fight oppression and/or take up arms against it, and ROTJ made it across the finish line without bulloxing things too much.

... and then we got the prequels.

Side note: I think we joked in the past about how the whole ending if aimed at adults would be far more interesting, if Obiwan and Padme actually HAD gotten together once (while not planning to), completing the triangle that Anakin feared, because that's how you up the stakes realistically. They both loved Anakin but at the same time their frustration and confusion over him gave the a common bond; Obi-Wan would have tried to be there for Padme because he loved Anakin and cared for Padme / wanted to protect her, and there would have been reciprocal feelings. They would have still been committed to Anakin and thus broken things off, yet it gives Anakin's paranoia additional teeth -- and hey, guess what, that would have even provided additional explanation as to why Obi-Wan hides in the desert for years afterwards... because on some level he felt like he deserved it, his slip-up ended up indirectly killing Padme and forced him in part to kill his best friend. Guilt is powerful but isn't something for a kid's story.

Well, here's some of the things you might be referring to:

5 Ways Lucas' ORIGINAL Prequel Plans Differed From The Movies

Lucas’ prequels were originally much different.

screenrant.com

Yeah, this could have been a more adult film series if Lucas (1) had committed to it and (2) hired someone else to complete/polish his drafts and expand the story ideas into scripts. Lucas didn't have the chops up to the task, but he also didn't want to let someone else do it for him.

Andor doesn't have a problem with this sort of thing, showing you the dark side of the rebellion.

People sometimes criticize Star Wars as silly kids stuff, but the prequels do contain some pretty good ideas that deserved to be fleshed out better. I can imagine a situation where the prequels get the Andor treatment, and the result of that being incredible.

It really could have been. It would be hard/impossible to ever "remake" them now, but yeah -- can you imagine?

That is a really great clip of Luthen Rael, and it mirrors what Tony Gilroy also did a bit in Rogue One (and why that film was such a step upwards). This isn't necessarily "good guys" vs "bad guys" in white and black hats. Often to fight evil, you become dirty yourself; innocence often loses because it is too vulnerable and defenseless and frankly "evil" doesn't care. Or at least that philosophy exists. Andor really shows the messy side of what it means to fight against an empire when you don't have equivalent resources or strategies available. The rebellion wouldn't have existed if not for this dark underbelly, but it means that the initial rebels had to basically become "sin eaters" so the rest of the rebellion could get on its feet. You can't make a rebellion without breaking a few eggs along the way. It gives me more patience nowadays IRL when you see strife breaking out, or events get kind of messy -- maybe those are not the preferred outcomes, but they are realistic steps along a process of change.

 

[Totenkindly]

Modeled after the infamous GoT horse pic....

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I realized I posted my OP in the wrong thread.

I think a lot of Star Wars has remained infantile because that was Lucas' personal vision, yet he also could not make up his mind on things. So we get a lot of stuff aimed at 10 year old understandings of the world, saturated with lots of really boring pseudo-political gobbledy gook to make it seem aimed at an older audience. But much of the political stuff Lucas added is so naive and/or pointlessly laborious and uninteresting to listen to.

The novelization of the original movie describes the Republic as rotting away from the inside like a tree. I think this is a great idea, and is in the background of the prequels, but it certainly could have done better.

For instance, why are the trade routes being taxed and what is this dispute actually about? I've always felt that the idea that the prequels focused too much on politics was wrong. (I'll note that Dune has plenty of space politics, and nobody complained) They tend to leave that stuff on the cutting room floor Obi-wan can chase an asthmatic cyborg on a dragon.

Hopefully, the following attempt at world building is a good example and shows how this could maybe done better:

What if the taxation that enraged the Trade Federation was a small tax increase, and the Federation had no tax increases in centuries? Perhaps the Trade Federation had come to feel that they rule in their right, and that they should be subject to the entity of nobody else.

Maybe in response, they grind trade to a halt across the Republic, perhaps staying afloat financially by doing business in Hutt Space, which sees an increase in slavery and other ills. And perhaps the Trade Federation has its tentacles in so many areas of galactic government that the Republic grinds to a halt.

Something something Clone Wars. (I've always thought they should have started in Episode I or already been going on when the movie started).

By the way, Ian McDiarmid is the GOAT in those movies. Who wouldn't have wanted more scenes of him seducing and manipulating people like levers?

The original trilogy threaded the needle best. Star Wars somehow managed to be fun -- kind of a space adventure film that didn't get particularly deep but had some resonant themes and character relationships via archetypes. TESB veered most effectively into the mess and darkness of what it means to fight oppression and/or take up arms against it, and ROTJ made it across the finish line without bulloxing things too much.

... and then we got the prequels.

Side note: I think we joked in the past about how the whole ending if aimed at adults would be far more interesting, if Obiwan and Padme actually HAD gotten together once (while not planning to), completing the triangle that Anakin feared, because that's how you up the stakes realistically. They both loved Anakin but at the same time their frustration and confusion over him gave the a common bond; Obi-Wan would have tried to be there for Padme because he loved Anakin and cared for Padme / wanted to protect her, and there would have been reciprocal feelings. They would have still been committed to Anakin and thus broken things off, yet it gives Anakin's paranoia additional teeth -- and hey, guess what, that would have even provided additional explanation as to why Obi-Wan hides in the desert for years afterwards... because on some level he felt like he deserved it, his slip-up ended up indirectly killing Padme and forced him in part to kill his best friend. Guilt is powerful but isn't something for a kid's story.

Well, here's some of the things you might be referring to:

5 Ways Lucas' ORIGINAL Prequel Plans Differed From The Movies

Lucas’ prequels were originally much different.

screenrant.com

I'm thinking of something I saw in a video featuring one of the concept artists who worked on the film (Iain McCaig?).
He revealed some artwork he did of Padme on Mustafar with a knife and explained that the reason she traveled there was to confront and kill Vader. (He was not happy this was changed.) Vader unambiguously force chokes her, unlike in the finished film with the infamous line.

Padme got done dirty in Episode III and the movie is mostly uninterested in her except as the mother of the Skywalker twins. Padme had a ton of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor. Some people praised the "This is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause" line for political relevance at the time. I always felt it seemed out of context because the movie wasn't that interested in following these political storylines even though they are essential to the story that is trying to be told.

Sidebar:

My opinion is that Star Wars is at its best when it is drawing from its roots of WWII movies, spaghetti westerns, and samurai films. Star Wars is at its worst when it is drawing from Star Wars, making every single scene an obnoxious callback.

This is why I lost all interest in The Acolyte after watching the trailer. This is the very first thing they do in the trailer, which is not a great sign. It tells me that there will be nothing of resonance in that series, and there will certainly be no imagination.

I was hoping we could have a story that's a meditation on what it means to be a Jedi, with characters struggling to make the right choices. This is something we see in Kurosawa movies, except you substitute Jedi for Samurai.

Or we could get a story about a Jedi who solves problems using unconventional means, other than brute force, like in (Yojimbo/Fist Full of Dollars).

In other words, if The Acolyte had drawn from Kurosawa and other samurai movies, it could have been incredible. But no, there's a callback to the time Obi-wan trained Luke on the Falcon, and undoubtedly a bunch of other bullshit callbacks as well. Look, Disney, we've all seen those movies. If we wanted to watch them again, we would watch them again.

I guess I should just watch Shogun. That's probably satisfying.

 

[Totenkindly]

For instance, why are the trade routes being taxed and what is this dispute actually about? I've always felt that the idea that the prequels focused too much on politics was wrong. (I'll note that Dune has plenty of space politics, and nobody complained) They tend to leave that stuff on the cutting room floor Obi-wan can chase an asthmatic cyborg on a dragon.

Yeah, I think you just have to write it carefully to boil it down so it's not just an infodump and it actually contributes tension to the plot. Villeneuve boiled his politics down to story conflict points:

• Spice is necessary for navigating any long-distance travel and is highly valued. Long-distance planetary trade cannot happen without it.
• Whoever controls the planet can become rich among imagining, which positions them ahead of other galaxy factions.
• House Atreides has become popular and strong enough to stir up the Emperor's fear and pose a threat to their rival the Harkonnens, so the Emperor has positioned Atriedes to not just fail but also poised them for utter annihilation by replacing Harkonnen as the managers/harvesters of Arrakis.
• This also pisses off Harkonnen who don't want to lose their wealth flow.
• House Atreides is aware of this subtext but has no options but to go along with it and try to reap enough wealth quickly enough to survive the trap.
• The Bene Gesserit (those who pull the strings from the shadows) have an investment on this planet as well, in terms of maintaining control (tacitly) over the Empire and have even seeded the natives with stories of their coming Messiah, to better control them.

Thus the politics are simplified and tied directly to the story's character conflict narrative. It's all RELEVANT. The books probably contain more intricate or complex nuances but that is the basic gist of it, which the audience quickly understand without much information and it increases tension.

Lucas just throws mounds of minutia into his "politics/trade" discussions that don't really explain anything and don't tie directly to the protagonists' fates. It's like filming an appendix of background material. Good historians know how to make the past relevant to current events, but Lucas does not have that ability. He just creates boredom.

Hopefully, the following attempt at world building is a good example and shows how this could maybe done better:

What if the taxation that enraged the Trade Federation was a small tax increase, and the Federation had no tax increases in centuries? Perhaps the Trade Federation had come to feel that they rule in their right, and that they should be subject to the entity of nobody else.

Maybe in response, they grind trade to a halt across the Republic, perhaps staying afloat financially by doing business in Hutt Space, which sees an increase in slavery and other ills. And perhaps the Trade Federation has its tentacles in so many areas of galactic government that the Republic grinds to a halt.

Something something Clone Wars. (I've always thought they should have started in Episode I or already been going on when the movie started).

Yeah. That's the rub of it, and how you can flesh it out with some broad understandings of the conflict.

By the way, Ian McDiarmid is the GOAT in those movies. Who wouldn't have wanted more scenes of him seducing and manipulating people like levers?

Pretty much he's the only thing giving interest and direction to all of this. Sometimes he's a little on the nose, but he seems to be enjoying himself so much that he's fun to watch.

I'm thinking of something I saw in a video featuring one of the concept artists who worked on the film (Iain McCaig?).
He revealed some artwork he did of Padme on Mustafar with a knife and explained that the reason she traveled there was to confront and kill Vader. (He was not happy this was changed.) Vader unambiguously force chokes her, unlike in the finished film with the infamous line.

Padme got done dirty in Episode III and the movie is mostly uninterested in her except as the mother of the Skywalker twins.

Yeah.... That. It's kind of insulting, considering what a big deal she was in the first film supposedly.

Hilariously, there are so many spins on all this. Like, if GRRM had written The Phantom Menace, I bet he would have killed the actual Padme and had her body double ascend to the throne and pretend for the rest of the narrative that she was the real Padme. It certainly would be more interesting, lol. Or at least there would be rumors of it.

I think it's just ironic that out of the multitude of story decisions that could have been taken, Lucas seems to continually pick the least interesting or most boring options available.

Padme had a ton of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor. Some people praised the "This is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause" line for political relevance at the time. I always felt it seemed out of context because the movie wasn't that interested in following these political storylines even though they are essential to the story that is trying to be told.

Agreed. Also -- one line doesn't save a really slop of a narrative. It would be a great line if it were the culmination of a lot of lesser ones and incremental steps, but I think it's just something you read a MAGA posting on Twitter and snort because of no underlying context.

Sidebar:

My opinion is that Star Wars is at its best when it is drawing from its roots of WWII movies, spaghetti westerns, and samurai films. Star Wars is at its worst when it is drawing from Star Wars, making every single scene an obnoxious callback.

This is why I lost all interest in The Acolyte after watching the trailer. This is the very first thing they do in the trailer, which is not a great sign. It tells me that there will be nothing of resonance in that series, and there will certainly be no imagination.

I was hoping we could have a story that's a meditation on what it means to be a Jedi, with characters struggling to make the right choices. This is something we see in Kurosawa movies, except you substitute Jedi for Samurai.

Or we could get a story about a Jedi who solves problems using unconventional means, other than brute force, like in (Yojimbo/Fist Full of Dollars).

In other words, if The Acolyte had drawn from Kurosawa and other samurai movies, it could have been incredible. But no, there's a callback to the time Obi-wan trained Luke on the Falcon, and undoubtedly a bunch of other bullshit callbacks as well. Look, Disney, we've all seen those movies. If we wanted to watch them again, we would watch them again.

That is such a great way to say it. Creativity needs constant influx of new material and ideas, synthesis with external things. Disney is just inbreeding Star Wars at this point, and the young are all dying at birth from fatal mutations and inability to thrive.

I guess I should just watch Shogun. That's probably satisfying.

It got such great reviews. I remember when the Richard Chamberlain version was so big. I know I had the book, I just can't remember whether I actually read it at the time (the miniseries rolled out in 1980, I was barely a tween). But I should definitely watch this new version.

 

[Totenkindly]

HAPPY EASTER

 

[Totenkindly]

 

[The Cat]

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

 

[The Cat]

I would have like a book about Ric.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I would have like a book about Ric.

You kidding? there's so much pre-Disney EU stuff floating around. He had to have gotten his own novel or comic at some point

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

View attachment 30449

Prime seems to have been pushing a similar model as well.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You kidding? there's so much pre-Disney EU stuff floating around. He had to have gotten his own novel or comic at some point

He was originally supposed to duel Vader on Mustafar, but the actor asked for too much money.

ANAKIN I TOLD YOU YOU CATCH ON PRETTY QUICK!

 

[The Cat]

You kidding? there's so much pre-Disney EU stuff floating around. He had to have gotten his own novel or comic at some point

Come to think of it I did see his face on a few covers. I do miss having a glut of books about every rock and tree and creature and all about its life, spirit and name. Have you ever heard the Gundark cry to to the blue full moons? Or asked the Devaronian why he grins? I think my favorite Star Wars book growing up Was the Illustrated Star Wars Universe by Ralph McQuarrie and Kevin J Anderson. That book changed how I view stories, shows and movies. I just love me some good world building fodder

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You kidding? there's so much pre-Disney EU stuff floating around. He had to have gotten his own novel or comic at some point

He was originally supposed to duel Vader on Mustafar, but the actor asked for too much money

Come to think of it I did see his face on a few covers. I do miss having a glut of books about every rock and tree and creature and all about its life, spirit and name. Have you ever heard the Gundark cry to to the blue full moons? Or asked the Devaronian why he grins? I think my favorite Star Wars book growing up Was the Illustrated Star Wars Universe by Ralph McQuarrie and Kevin J Anderson. That book changed how I view stories, shows and movies. I just love me some good world building fodder

I liked when the Imperial Palace was this weird gigantic cathedral type building, kind of Gothic. Now, it's just the Jedi Temple.

 

[The Cat]

He was originally supposed to duel Vader on Mustafar, but the actor asked for too much money

I liked when the Imperial Palace was this weird gigantic cathedral type building, kind of Gothic. Now, it's just the Jedi Temple.

Coruscant is the perfect setting for Dungeon Delving Star Wars Roleplaying games. I also think we could get some good Star Wars Noir stories set there too.