[OUTDATED] NEW Enneagram quiz

[the sentinel]

This thread is outdated.

the website and quiz can be found in this thread

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[KitchenFly]

What interested me the most was your new triads. You stated The Enneagram is an ancient symbol that nobody knows where came from. It was popularised in the 1970s or so by Oscar Ichazo, who taught of nine different ego types. (ego = someone's conscious thoughts and desires.) Each type has a different motivation, fear, and vice. The goal of learning which type you belong to is to help you know more about yourself and grow as a person. ​

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(ego = someone's conscious thoughts and desires.) ​

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These are the new triads:​

1, 2, and 3 are head types:

• 1 retreats to the mind to assess their motivation to exist as they do
• 2 plans out how to be the most useful to others
• 3 is cognizant how to get ahead and stay ahead

4, 5, and 6 are gut types:

• 4 trusts their gut to know what is and isn't them
• 5 uses gut information to quickly assess the environment
• 6 desires to connect with others on an intuitive level

7, 8, and 9 are heart types:

• 7 wants to create a happy, utopian environment
• 8 wants to right wrongs and serve justice
• 9 want their environment to be in order and at peace, their emotional desires play out in fantasy

I am not shore what I think But I knotted that there was a pattern between points 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 and 7,8,9 It was quite some time ago 20 years ago so it is hard to recall my thoughts I would have to recall my understands at that point of time. I would not reject the triads of 2,3,4 and 5,6,7 and 8,9,1 because the mechanic is correct. The triads link the heart and head and gut with other structures correctly.

You are having a go at building a model that resonates with your own lens and understandings.

I don't want to say anything negative if you tried to reinvent the wheel your wheel seems a bit wonky and I don't your new model is as good as Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson's comprehensive model of the working enneagram.

I think the biggest problem with your model as it is, is that it doesn't seem to cater for the differing levels of health. It seems fixated at the level of overcompensation and that dose not descried the hole of the normal everyday operation the human mind.

 

[the sentinel]

What interested me the most was your new triads. You stated The Enneagram is an ancient symbol that nobody knows where came from. It was popularised in the 1970s or so by Oscar Ichazo, who taught of nine different ego types. (ego = someone's conscious thoughts and desires.) Each type has a different motivation, fear, and vice. The goal of learning which type you belong to is to help you know more about yourself and grow as a person. ​

​

(ego = someone's conscious thoughts and desires.) ​

​

​

These are the new triads:​

1, 2, and 3 are head types:

• 1 retreats to the mind to assess their motivation to exist as they do
• 2 plans out how to be the most useful to others
• 3 is cognizant how to get ahead and stay ahead

4, 5, and 6 are gut types:

• 4 trusts their gut to know what is and isn't them
• 5 uses gut information to quickly assess the environment
• 6 desires to connect with others on an intuitive level

7, 8, and 9 are heart types:

• 7 wants to create a happy, utopian environment
• 8 wants to right wrongs and serve justice
• 9 want their environment to be in order and at peace, their emotional desires play out in fantasy

I am not shore what I think But I knotted that there was a pattern between points 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 and 7,8,9 It was quite some time ago 20 years ago so it is hard to recall my thoughts I would have to recall my understands at that point of time. I would not reject the triads of 2,3,4 and 5,6,7 and 8,9,1 because the mechanic is correct. The triads link the heart and head and gut with other structures correctly.

You are having a go at building a model that resonates with your own lens and understandings.

I don't want to say anything negative if you tried to reinvent the wheel your wheel seems a bit wonky and I don't your new model is as good as Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson's comprehensive model of the working enneagram.

I think the biggest problem with your model as it is, is that it doesn't seem to cater for the differing levels of health. It seems fixated at the level of overcompensation and that dose not descried the hole of the normal everyday operation the human mind.

i am aware my new model is not particularly sound as it is. for now its only a working prototype. But i will also say i do not like riso and hudson's model. The health levels make sense given each type. But I find that the way the types behave is not really like "real people". so that would mean the health levels are off too. it's not their system thats really off, its just the information they're working with. because the types themselves are off, that also means the triads would be off too. the reason i have so much animosity towards the current model is directly because of the "caricatures" that each type makes people seem; because the entire system is built off the personalities, then everything after it has to be changed as well.

I am still working on how to address the health levels more comprehensively. But getting 9 different levels is not possible with the research i have at hand. For now, I am trying to give each type a basic healthy v. unhealthy level. With the type descriptions themselves assuming average health.

 

[KitchenFly]

I am still working on how to address the health levels more comprehensively. But getting 9 different levels is not possible with the research i have at hand. For now, I am trying to give each type a basic healthy v. unhealthy level. With the type descriptions themselves assuming average health.

It seems to me there there are four states healthy, average, unhealthy, and authentically switched on.

The nine levels of health that Harley Hitchcock and Don Richard Riso recorded 32 years ago is a three into three approach lead effort. I don't think Russ Hudson had anything to do with recording the basic fears and desirers for each of the nine levels because it was compiled during an advanced training that Don Riso facilitated. It was my friend Harley Hitchcock idea to record the basic fears and desirous and Ron said yes and so they did so during that advanced training. I was not their but that is what Harley told me. Harley Hitchcock was or is still a very talented phycologist He had or still has the ability to explain the most complex idea in the simplest manner regardless of what lens an individual views the through.

But back to your new triads. I have not focused much attention on the enneagram structure for quite some time I have been interested in the link between mind and physics. But there are two areas of interest I never completed to a satisfactory conclusion and one of the two is this second grouping of three into three grouping energy structure you have defined as the real Triads.

Its been on my mind since I briefly scanned though your web page.

And I am trying to reengage my impressions and thought of what is taking place between the two sets of three into three trinary s.

I think it maybe linked to the four states, healthy, average, unhealthy, and authentically switched on. I know it may sound like a strange idea but I think when we lead with the heart s rather than with the mental there is a gear shift a change within as we switch back wards and forwards between the two Mental lead heart passively following or Heart lead mental passively following.

I am not a mechanical engineer or electrical engineer or physiologist but I do know a real phenomenological shift in the experiential dose take place.


This dose not describe the focuses of attention when the Heart leads and the mental passively follows.

• 9 want their environment to be in order and at peace, their emotional desires play out in fantasy

So I am not shore still what think or say about your nine new ego triad states. I am going to think about it for a while and I am going to think about Presence Heart and the three into three triads yours and the accepted established triad system.


Have learned to stich on your heart and if so have you drafted this model via that focus of attention?

 

[the sentinel]

Have learned to stich on your heart and if so have you drafted this model via that focus of attention?

being honest, i dont fully understand what this part means (but i will try to interpet it). i see that you have mentioned the heart and the mind ad two different stages that go back and forth. but i at a loss where that fits into the traditional model or even the "new" model. Where does that leave gut types?

by focus of attention, i assume you mean where one WANTS to go. like in trad enneagram, a head type 6 WANTS to use their head.

but in my model, I do not believe that the focuz of attention is the same as the desire. say an 8 (heart type in my model). the 8 may wish they were a head type a "rational thinker" if you will. the 3 different body orientations are automatic unless one purposefully and consistently practises their "non-autos".

if you mean that i have used my heart as the basis for this model. Then based on the model itself, probably not. Given my proposition that a type must learn well their non-auto, and the fact that within my own assessment, i typed as a 5, the chance is low. however, because 5 is right at the "schizm" or the "between point" of the enneagram altogether, the boundaries between the three axes of function are lower. You may even consider 9 being the near abstinence of function (given their "falling asleep" tendency). and 1 being the most retentive of their "auto" function (given their stubbornness and skepticism, even of themselves).

(I know i didnt address your message in full, I will follow-up [hopefully] shortly)

 

[KitchenFly]

I meant switch on your heart Have you learned to switch on your heart.

Do you wake up in the morning sit on the edge of your bed and conches Ly focus your mental attention to your heart and switch, feel the switch of attention begin to lead from your heart and feel the mental of your mind is auxiliary to the hearts lead.

The law of three imaged is to sense think and feel simultaneously without bias. This is another way to switch on switch on intuitions of a spiritual order. Something one you do on the go one you can do when becoming conches after sleep in that first few minutes when waking up.

The point of my question was to work out if you were switching on your heart and then observing people for your new model.

I was thinking your new model maybe capturing the heart lead attention 1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart.

I am also thinking when habitual direct cognition levels out cognition to a relaxed stable pattern what may have been referred to as be right brain thinking vs left brain thinking,. maybe your model 1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart is the right brain modality and 2,3,4 Heart, 5,6,7 Head, 8,9,1 Gut is the left brain modality if modality is the best word.

So you may have found the missing puzzle peace.

I will give you an example.

I learnt to switch on my heart when I awoke every morning at the age of ten. I did this for two and a bit years and I began to not practice switching on my heart and slowly lost the use of my abilities. If authentic warranted I could switch on but I put my faith into fitting in and developing my cool personality as a new teen.

But I was always a right brain orientated person. But the enneagram dose not address left and right brain and I am thinking that you may have unwittingly found the mechanism in verdantly.

Before typed this I watched YouTube and drafted a flippant comment for fun and to point out how politically correct acting people have lost touch within the real world.

Lagoon 450 attacked by orcas​

​

• 9 want their environment to be in order and at peace, their emotional desires play out in fantasy

I am a nine with one, Sx/sp.

My comment.

I would have had a powerful speargun on the boat. I would have shot one of the Orcas in the eye and reloaded my speargun with another spear. You could have tied the spear to a winch and dragged the Orcas along until the spear pulled out of the eye socket. Re using that spear to shoot another Killer whale. An electric chain saw could have also been helpful I noted an Orca was right in reach at the stern of boat. A good slash with the chain saw would have filled the water with blood. Next time have some Dynamite, that will let them know who has the technical edge. If I was to build a boat, I would have Gatland gun front and rear. The Gatland gun will turn any Orca into sushi in no time and let other Orcas and hippy boat owners know who is boss. Happy sails and always be prepared.

After writing this comment I thought about your model and realised have I actualised what he meaning you your model states at the Triad level of minds operation?

1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart

Heart as a right brain thinker would be engaged Being a type nine.

All prose cesses begin at zero at point nine and end at nine at point nine. So, Head 1,2,3 being lead by a mental cognitive approach as a automatic response seams a right brain action.

4,5,6 Gut, draft it so it so it has an affects on the personal of the reader, seems a right brain action.

7,8,9 Heart, Taking part in what is real the narrative as a role play engaged within as a participant. 7,8,9 Heart.

Were as left brain people have more controlled ways to react and respond it is more about being considered, Process though filters first then respond. Auto response is fine if it has already been properly considered or the response or reaction is an accepted response or reaction. A Left brain approved norm approved by left brain first people..

So what do you think about that?

I did not chose to comment on you being a five and other stuff I wanted to focus on the two triads models and work out the possible mechanics. I think we may both be right brain first people and I think your triad model may tern out to be an important real component.


Remember left brain people insist on controlling the standard model because it is easier to manage all decisions and bias. And that is probably a good thing.

The real would for people is like a congenial trance role played we do what we believe we are meant to do just like those people in the boat. They sat back and hoped for the best.

The problem is if we think only though the left brain bias first we may loose contact with the valuable that the right brain has to offer, we may have lost in or bias the knowledge of its switching mechanism in the mind of man. We may have failed to recognise its place on the enneagram because we think right brain is a remedial like assert, something to be managed and not celebrated or promoted.

 

[KitchenFly]

Maybe I am a heathy integrated nine.



Type 3 - The Magnate
Drive: to be at the top in life
Fear: To be "less than"
Conflict: comparison (2) v. indifference (4)

knows how to network and bring people together. Likes taking central stage, loves to shock and impress. Can be vain. Needs to feel successful to maintain positive self-perception. Tries to be classy, dislikes anything rickety, outdated, or second-rate. Often knows how to build wealth. Interpersonal style depends upon surroundings.




Healthy 3 - The Role Model

Sets the standard. Becomes a positive example for others in practical/business affairs. A quality control specialist, makes sure things are well-kept and prestigious. Sympathises with those who have less than.




Unhealthy 3 - The Classist

Refuses to associate with anyone considered "less than". spends too much time trying to stay at the top, fears being outdone or mitigated. Never satisfied, always chasing more and better.

 

[the sentinel]

I meant switch on your heart Have you learned to switch on your heart.

Do you wake up in the morning sit on the edge of your bed and conches Ly focus your mental attention to your heart and switch, feel the switch of attention begin to lead from your heart and feel the mental of your mind is auxiliary to the hearts lead.

The law of three imaged is to sense think and feel simultaneously without bias. This is another way to switch on switch on intuitions of a spiritual order. Something one you do on the go one you can do when becoming conches after sleep in that first few minutes when waking up.

The point of my question was to work out if you were switching on your heart and then observing people for your new model.

I was thinking your new model maybe capturing the heart lead attention 1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart.

I am also thinking when habitual direct cognition levels out cognition to a relaxed stable pattern what may have been referred to as be right brain thinking vs left brain thinking,. maybe your model 1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart is the right brain modality and 2,3,4 Heart, 5,6,7 Head, 8,9,1 Gut is the left brain modality if modality is the best word.

So you may have found the missing puzzle peace.

I will give you an example.

I learnt to switch on my heart when I awoke every morning at the age of ten. I did this for two and a bit years and I began to not practice switching on my heart and slowly lost the use of my abilities. If authentic warranted I could switch on but I put my faith into fitting in and developing my cool personality as a new teen.

But I was always a right brain orientated person. But the enneagram dose not address left and right brain and I am thinking that you may have unwittingly found the mechanism in verdantly.

Before typed this I watched YouTube and drafted a flippant comment for fun and to point out how politically correct acting people have lost touch within the real world.

Lagoon 450 attacked by orcas​

​

• 9 want their environment to be in order and at peace, their emotional desires play out in fantasy

I am a nine with one, Sx/sp.

My comment.

I would have had a powerful speargun on the boat. I would have shot one of the Orcas in the eye and reloaded my speargun with another spear. You could have tied the spear to a winch and dragged the Orcas along until the spear pulled out of the eye socket. Re using that spear to shoot another Killer whale. An electric chain saw could have also been helpful I noted an Orca was right in reach at the stern of boat. A good slash with the chain saw would have filled the water with blood. Next time have some Dynamite, that will let them know who has the technical edge. If I was to build a boat, I would have Gatland gun front and rear. The Gatland gun will turn any Orca into sushi in no time and let other Orcas and hippy boat owners know who is boss. Happy sails and always be prepared.

After writing this comment I thought about your model and realised have I actualised what he meaning you your model states at the Triad level of minds operation?

1,2,3 Head, 4,5,6 Gut, 7,8,9 Heart

Heart as a right brain thinker would be engaged Being a type nine.

All prose cesses begin at zero at point nine and end at nine at point nine. So, Head 1,2,3 being lead by a mental cognitive approach as a automatic response seams a right brain action.

4,5,6 Gut, draft it so it so it has an affects on the personal of the reader, seems a right brain action.

7,8,9 Heart, Taking part in what is real the narrative as a role play engaged within as a participant. 7,8,9 Heart.

Were as left brain people have more controlled ways to react and respond it is more about being considered, Process though filters first then respond. Auto response is fine if it has already been properly considered or the response or reaction is an accepted response or reaction. A Left brain approved norm approved by left brain first people..

So what do you think about that?

I did not chose to comment on you being a five and other stuff I wanted to focus on the two triads models and work out the possible mechanics. I think we may both be right brain first people and I think your triad model may tern out to be an important real component.


Remember left brain people insist on controlling the standard model because it is easier to manage all decisions and bias. And that is probably a good thing.

The real would for people is like a congenial trance role played we do what we believe we are meant to do just like those people in the boat. They sat back and hoped for the best.

The problem is if we think only though the left brain bias first we may loose contact with the valuable that the right brain has to offer, we may have lost in or bias the knowledge of its switching mechanism in the mind of man. We may have failed to recognise its place on the enneagram because we think right brain is a remedial like assert, something to be managed and not celebrated or promoted.

i am short on time so i cannot give a particuarly thoughtful response. But i think that the left-brain right-brain dynamic is more suited for Jungian functions than Enneagram. There may be a relationship, but i think it is not a really strong one. perhaps it might be part of the "1-5-9" schism; where 5 in their avarice represent the juggling between one side and the other. i would have to guess that every other type uses one over the other perferably, perhaps alterinating like chocolate drizzle (i. e. 9 is left, 1 is right, 8 is right, 2 is left) but at the moment i do not know each type's preference. maybe it could even be linked to a stress/growth points? like the translation of numbers, except via the mode of decision. (gut type disintegrates to head, integrates to heart for example)

however, i am not one that knows much about the brain in its physicality. i only know about the mind. i am not even sure if left-right brained thinking exists. my answer is merely a hasty conjecture; but a little thinking about it doesnt hurt

 

[KitchenFly]

Thank you for shearing that you are short on time I do not wish to distract you from your good work and primary interests. I will simply shear that I think a primary clue is the mechanical differences between the the usage of the two L:aws the law of Three and the law of Severn.

My reflections on what I believe differentiates left brain thinkers and right brain thinkers is the focus of attention.

I think right brain thinkers focuses on Now Time Narrative people and things primarily before consideration of the primary concept and Ideas underpinning the focus of attention. An altitudinal action as a default preference in cognitive behaviour. Points: (1,2,3) and (4,5,6) and (7,8,9).

Left brain thinker I think tend to focus in a reverse like manner they prefer to think about an idea conceptual utilising the three primary Points Three Six and Nine utilising Ego Sper ego and Id as a filter to formulate a balanced biases in order to successfully present argument and persuade. Points: (3,7,8) and ( 6,1,2) and (9,4,5).

Any way good luck with the continuing development of your model, I will leave any input I may have at that unless you would like to further discuss the topic and the input I have sheared.

Cheers to you for doing your best and endeavouring to advance our understandings of the human condition via further an understanding of mind.