"Most girls aren't funny" they say

[Mind Maverick]

Christopher Hitchens was an ass.

Is this a statement about him as a person in general, or a comment about him due to his views that were shared in this video?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Is this a statement about him as a person in general, or a comment about him due to his views that were shared in this video?

It's actually about his views on other things, although that essay is pretty dumb. He was an apologist for a really awful set of policies. The worst part is that he probably made those policies palatable to people because he was seen as being on the "right side" of culture war garbage at the time. Some things go down easier for some people if it's an intellectual-sounding British atheist type saying that as opposed to some twangy Bible-thumping fundamentalist. But hey, who cares about any of that. He was edgy!

 

[Mind Maverick]

I'm all for gender equality, but that doesn't mean genders are treated equally in reality, and I'm not for any reason reluctant to face truths that don't match my beliefs or preferences. Furthermore, there being a difference here doesn't necessarily mean the genders are unequal at all, nor is it necessarily a statement proposing that there is a limitation or an insult here. It may simply suggest that due to social norms as they are now, and because of roles each gender has in society (which do exist regardless of whether one believes it's messed up, or if one hates it, or whatever), being funny might be valued more by one gender than another on average.

One gender may feel more pressured to be funny than the other based on the fact that yes, women are still treated like products and men like consumers in the world of dating, sex, and flirtation; as consumers, men must use things to "purchase" the woman or "win them over" using some sort of social interaction "transaction," while the women make themselves appear more valuable and to be sought after by presenting themselves as "attractive" - and whatever "attractive" means, is debatable. (I don't like that social norms are this way, but the truth is that women are still widely objectified and treated like possessions to be earned or bought - and that which they are purchased with ranges from looks, to humor, to stability, to money, to charm, to whatever else.)

I don't believe that saying "most women aren't funny" is necessarily a reflection of misogynistic views at all. Yes, it can be, but I also think that the promotion of "equality" may cause some degree of bias. Hear me out. We forget that we are animals, and we can clearly see among other species the tendency to have one sex doing the attraction and the other doing the choosing. Is this considered gender inequality in the animal kingdom, or is it simply the way they've evolved as a species? Could it even be that perhaps these ideas of "gender equality" are some sort of evolution taking place? What is inherently wrong about the fact that one sex primarily chases and the other primarily chooses? If it is "wrong" for this to happen, what do we make of other animals besides us doing it? If there is nothing technically "wrong" about it, and it is simply a structure in things that comes from primitive instinct, then why should it be offensive or wrong when one gender develops a tool for being accepted by a mate more than the mate who is doing this approving/disapproving? I would argue a different case entirely if one were to say, "most women are incapable of being funny," but this is not what's being said. What's being said, "most women aren't funny," leaves an opening for the possibility that this is simply a choice; whether one sex generally has the tendency to develop the skill and meet the potential which each of them equally have more frequently, according to what is deemed important, useful, or beneficial to them as they live their lives and navigate the world. I don't think many people would deny that there are some differences in the way men and women experience the world as they go about their daily lives as member of society--regardless of whether those differences are considered neutral, good, or bad by the individuals who would agree with this.

In conclusion, I don't think it's misogynistic whatsoever to say that most women aren't funny. I think there is simply this expectation to view each gender as parallel, even if reality presents other facts. For instance, men are generally physically stronger than women, and the Navy Seals won't even allow women to become Seals because of this. If you look at many bird species, it's the male that has the beautiful colors, does the dancing, or makes the alluring sounds. While this is somewhat of a false comparison in the sense that there's nothing to suggest men are neurologically wired to be different than females in the humor department, I think even as a social construct this kind of thing can occur; in other words, it'd be as though a gender may develop the ability to make those noises, wear those pretty and flashy colors, or do the dancing, simply because more social pressure is placed on them. I don't find this concept to be any different than the way females are pressured to appear attractive physically and it is the norm for women to...well, basically do the equivalent of a bird wearing flashy colors to attract attention of mates. We pay a lot more attention to aesthetics and physical appearances than men on average because it's just what's ingrained into people. Some people disagree with and lie outside of these norms, but they are still considered outliers in today's world. It's parallel to the way I've heard many women say, "most men don't know how to dress." Well, I do think there is some degree of truth to this, as most men aren't pressured to focus on this as much as women. In my eyes it's not offensive, nor misogynistic, therefore, to say "most women aren't funny." Rather, it may be a consequence of common social expectations and pressures.

 

[Novella]

It is perception based. My husband (INTJ) thinks my sense of humour is silly but my best friend (ENFJ) says my humor is a drink regurgitator. Perhaps I am walking proof the accuracy of my husband's analysis

 

[Mind Maverick]

Furthermore, many often tend to gravitate toward exceptions once a generalization is made, using them to disprove generalizations (as if the generalization is making a black and white, all or nothing statement); however, there are still many instances in which there is a majority and a minority, and the existence of a minority is not sufficient counterevidence for the existence of a majority.

 

[Mind Maverick]

It is perception based. My husband (INTJ) thinks my sense of humour is silly but my best friend (ENFJ) says my humor is a drink regurgitator. Perhaps I am walking proof the accuracy of my husband's analysis

A drink regurgitator? What's that mean? I don't get it.

I do agree with the notion that it's based upon subjective views, however, but the question in my mind is more along the lines of...asking about the collective majority's subjective views, if that makes sense? Or finding out whether this subjective view is coming from a minority group...and what the common denominator is in those who share this subjective view.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A drink regurgitator? What's that mean? I don't get it.

I do agree with the notion that it's based upon subjective views, however, but the question in my mind is more along the lines of...asking about the collective majority's subjective views, if that makes sense? Or finding out whether this subjective view is coming from a minority group...and what the common denominator is in those who share this subjective view.

How do you hope to find out what the majority of men think from a small sample on this website?

I know a lot of women aren't funny, but a lot of men aren't either. I haven't really bothered counting to see which gender has more unfunny people. That's not naivete.

 

[Mind Maverick]

How do you hope to find out what the majority of men think from a small sample on this website?

I know a lot of women aren't funny, but a lot of men aren't either. I haven't really bothered counting to see which gender has more unfunny people. That's not naivete.

I don't. I'm moreso gleaning from whatever I can; experiences, points made, etc. I'm also not only talking about it on this site though.

I mostly want to get to the bottom of what it means when someone says this, not based on surmises, but the accumulation of information from multiple sources.

 

[Novella]

My best friend and I find each other funny to the point where we sputter liquid. That is not to say we are funny but to highlight that humor is subjective.

 

[Mind Maverick]

My best friend and I find each other funny to the point where we sputter liquid. That is not to say we are funny but to highlight that humor is subjective.

Indeed it is--but there are "popular" subjective opinions as well as "unpopular" ones, and of course, everything in-between. Many studies have been done on this as science tries to uncover the mysteries behind what makes things funny.

 

[Novella]

Indeed it is--but there are "popular" subjective opinions as well as "unpopular" ones, and of course, everything in-between. Many studies have been done on this as science tries to uncover the mysteries behind what makes things funny.

I am an INFP, I don't give any care to what is popular or not. Not even on my radar.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I am an INFP, I don't give any care to what is popular or not. Not even on my radar.

I don't understand why anyone would associate such a thing with anyone's MBTI type. Introversion/Extroversion, Concrete/Theory, Thinking/Feeling, Judging/Perceiving--where does "caring about popularity" fit into any of these? This seems completely subjective rather than type related based on how types are actually defined, and I doubt there are even any statistics that support this is a general pattern amongst INFPs. I can only imagine that this comes from projection, although I could easily be overlooking some other route one might possibly take to arrive to such a conclusion. Nonetheless, it registers as a conclusion that is baseless, unsupported, and far from objective. Or rather, as close to objective as collective findings pertaining to typology can be.

While it's fine that you don't care about popularity personally and you're entitled to take this stance, popularity (just a synonym for "subjective views that people have in common and relate to one-another in" in this instance) is relevant to the topic being discussed here. It relates to the discussion about others who perceive that "most girls aren't funny." My comment was never directed toward you personally, it was merely a point I was adding to the overall discussion on this thread. If you were just sharing your thoughts/opinions, then...thanks for sharing, I guess.

 

[Novella]

I am being honest. I like you. You seem like a good person. I am in my fourth decade of life. I don't like conflict.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I am being honest. I like you. You seem like a good person. I am in my fourth decade of life. I don't like conflict.

Err--did it seem like conflict? How?

Also, thanks. Based on what very little I know of you, such is mutual...although for the sake of honesty I'll also add that I don't think I've seen you around enough to feel like I have a sense of who you are. Just an act of kindness here and there, at least one of which was directed toward me personally, and I appreciate that.

 

[Novella]

There is no conflict here.

 

[Mind Maverick]

There is no conflict here.

Was I too emotionally dry? Too formal? Too blunt?

 

[Luminous]

I know a lot of women aren't funny, but a lot of men aren't either. I haven't really bothered counting to see which gender has more unfunny people.

Eh, one of my thoughts when thinking about this was, How many people do I think are funny? The answer is I'm not sure.

Anyway, I largely agree with Everin and Novella.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Eh, one of my thoughts when thinking about this was, How many people do I think are funny? The answer is I'm not sure.

Anyway, I largely agree with Everin and Novella.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this imply that you think the people who say this are just stereotyping and overgeneralizing?

 

[Luminous]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this imply that you think the people who say this are just stereotyping and overgeneralizing?

Yep.

People are so vastly different from each other. The idea that gender identity equals humor is dumb, frankly. And I think that if the thought that either isn't funny pops into someone's mind, it's likely because they're either spending too much time in some overly homogeneous or possibly stifled environment or they have some underlying bias that is coloring their vision.

 

[Mind Maverick]

To explore lay conceptions of characteristics of an ideal sense of humor as embodied in a known individual, our study examined elicited written narratives by male and female participants from three different countries of origin: United States, Iran, and Turkey. As reported in an earlier previous study with United States-based participants (Crawford and Gressley, 1991), our study also found that the embodiment of an ideal sense of humor was predominantly a male figure. This effect was more pronounced for male than for female participants but did not differ by country. Relative mention of specific humor characteristics differed by participant gender and by country of origin.

There is an established literature on gender differences in humor perception and humor styles. Men have been noted to prefer humor that has sexual or aggressive themes whereas women appear to prefer neutral or absurd humor (Aillaud and Piolat, 2012). Whereas earlier studies showed that sexist humor (i.e., humor that upholds gender role stereotypes) is preferred over non-sexist humor (Cantor, 1976), other studies report that both men and women prefer humor that has the opposite gender as the butt (Vaid and Hull, 1998; Parekh, 1999). Furthermore, men typically rate themselves higher than women in humor initiation whereas women tend to rate themselves higher in humor appreciation, but when humor is studied in actual conversational contexts a more nuanced picture emerges (see Kramarae, 1981; Kotthoff, 1996, 2000; Schiau, 2017). Similarly, whereas some studies have found that humor produced by men is judged to be more humorous than that produced by women (Brodzinsky and Rubien, 1976), other studies have not found this effect (Hull et al., 2017), and still other work suggests a bias operating, whereby men are perceived to be the “funnier sex” regardless of how their humorous creations are actually judged (Mickes et al., 2011; Hooper et al., 2016).

As an extension of our interest in gender and cultural dimensions of humor, the aim of the present research was to characterize how gender and country of origin (as a proxy for culture) may shape how individuals conceptualize an ideal sense of humor. The motivation for this study was a previous study which examined the role of gender in lay conceptions of an ideal sense of humor (Crawford and Gressley, 1991) in a large sample of United States-based participants of different ages and backgrounds. Participants in this study were asked to provide a brief narrative describing the humor characteristics of a person they knew who embodied an outstanding sense of humor. Crawford and Gressley (1991) reported that a majority of the participants identified a male figure as the person who embodied an outstanding sense of humor. Indeed, of the 141 respondents (49 men, 92 women), nearly 84% of men and 67% of women selected a male figure. The researchers also classified the humor characteristics mentioned into five categories: creativity (witty, clever, quick comeback), caring (humor used to put others at ease), real life (grounding the humor in real life experiences), jokes (having a repertoire of jokes), and hostility/sarcasm (satirical, biting humor) and noted that creativity, caring and real life were mentioned most often, and that there were no discernible differences in the weighting of these characteristics as a function of either participant gender or target gender.

Over 25 years have passed since the Crawford and Gressley (1991) study. While gender continues to be a salient element structuring society, women have also become more visible in a number of domains of public life, including in the realm of comedy. It is possible that gender stereotypes may have become less entrenched in the present day. We therefore wondered if the preference for a male figure as the embodiment of an outstanding sense of humor noted previously still holds among young adults in the present age. We also wondered whether individuals from other countries would show a similar preference, given that they might be less likely to be influenced by Western gender stereotypes (including stereotypes regarding men as being the canonical humor initiator), but might have their own cultural stereotypes about humor, gender, and the relation between the two.

In searching the literature, we could find only one other empirical study conducted since the study by Crawford and Gressley (1991) that used their open-ended prompt. This study, by Nevo et al. (2001), was conducted on men and women in Singapore. It, too, found that the embodiment of an outstanding sense of humor was male. Of the 18 men and 46 women in the study, 76% of respondents selected a male target (Nevo et al., 2001). The researchers further noted that the preference for a male target was more pronounced in men, but no additional analyses were reported in terms of specific humor characteristics mentioned by men and women. Thus, we felt another study was warranted.

Most of the data were coded by the same researcher (with gender of participants masked) to provide consistency in coding. A subset of the data were also intercoded to ensure some level of consensus (at least 80%). The five coding categories were as follows: Creativity: This characteristic includes terms referring to creative aspects of humor, like witty, quick comeback, playing with language, clever, as well as being spontaneous or natural. An example of this characteristic from our sample is “very quick in answering with a witty comment.” Caring: This characteristic indicates the kind of humor that makes people laugh and helps to change their mood when they are upset or in a tough situation. An example of this characteristic is “their humor helps relieve the tension.” Real Life: This characteristic shows the ability of the humorous person to tell stories and recount real life events in a humorous way. An example of this dimension is “a great story-teller to bring out humor.” Jokes: This characteristic refers to the use of actual jokes. An example of this dimension is “holds the crowd’s attention with a simple joke.” Hostility/Sarcasm: This category consists of attacking, insulting, and destructive humor as well as sarcasm. An indication of this characteristic is “can come up with the worst sexist insult.”

A chi square analysis was done excluding those whose target gender was unspecified to compare the relative percent mention of a male vs. female humor target, collapsed across participant gender. The analysis showed no significant effect of country of origin, χ2= 0.33, p = 0.85, N = 331. That is, regardless of their country of origin, participants showed a consistent tendency to select a male figure as their humor ideal: 77.1% of Americans, 78.5% of Turkish, and 73.5% of Iranian participants identified a male.

A logistic regression was conducted to see if the gender of the ideal humor target person could be predicted based on the participants’ gender or the participant’s country of origin (American, Turkish, Iranian). Again, only participants whose responses indicated the gender of their humor ideal were included in the analysis. Dummy coding was applied for the analysis. The model was significant, χ2= 13.78, p = 0.003, df = 3 and explained 6.2% of the variance. Gender of participant was a significant predictor of gender of humor target (χ2= 11.08, p = 0.001, odds ratio = 0.29): male participants were more likely than female participants to select a male target as the embodiment of an ideal sense of humor (89.6% vs. 71.9%, respectively). Country of origin, on the other hand, was not a significant predictor (χ2= 0.32, p = 0.85) (Turkish vs. Iranian: χ2= 0.13, p = 0.71, odds ratio = 1.19; American vs. Iranian: χ2= 0.31, p = 0.57; odds ratio = 0.94; American vs. Turkish: χ2= 0.04, p = 0.84, odds ratio = 0.79). See Figure 1 for a depiction of the percent mention of male targets per participant gender and group.

A logistic regression was conducted on the American sample to see if there was a difference related to time at testing in the percent mention of a male target by men and women. Here, Crawford and Gressley (1991) were compared with data from the American sample (which was collected over two different time periods, 2004 and 2014).

The model was significant, χ2= 14.97, p = 0.002, df = 3 and explained 6.9% of variance. There was not a difference between the American 2014 and the 1991 data. However, the American 2004 data showed a difference than both the 1991 data, χ2= 6.33, p = 0.012, B = -1.12 and the 2014 data, χ2= 4.88, p = 0.027, B = -1.01. Participants from the 2004 sample (89.6%) revealed more male favored results than the 2014 sample (73%) and than the original study sample (73%).

Participants’ gender was also a significant predictor, χ2= 5.29, p = 0.021, B = -0.767. That is, the selection of a male humor ideal was significantly higher when the participant was a male than when the participant was a female. In the original study male participants’ preference for a male target was 83.7% and female participants’ preference for a male target was 67.4%. In our study, male preference for a male target was 90.9% while female preference for a male target was 72.4%.

Frontiers | Is an Ideal Sense of Humor Gendered? A Cross-National Study | Psychology