How to handle ENFP volatility/unpredictability

[ChocolateMoose123]

Re: emotional breadcrumbs. What I was attempting to describe was something that I experienced with him and some other ENFPs where they ask indirect questions or create situations that help them to know where they stand with you and how much you value them.

A made up example would be if I cut a sandwich in half and asked the ENFP to pick a half, and the ENFP turns it around and asks, "Well...which one would you want me to have?" Both of these sandwich halves represents something to the ENFP, and if I give him one, he takes it as "Well she has this half sandwich feelings about me."

If I (in my ignorance) pick the bad omen sandwich half, then the ENFP will start asking follow up questions like, "Are you sure that's the sandwich half you want to give me? Why did you pick that sandwich half? Which sandwich half did you want?" These follow up questions are what I'm describing as "emotional breadcrumbs". The ENFP has an answer he's hoping for and one that he hopes that I understand him well enough and sufficiently value him enough to give him. And when he sees me maybe considering the bad omen sandwich half, he will begin to provide little nudges (or breadcrumbs) to prompt me towards the other choice.

Because I am not a nice person. Although, I could pick up on the emotional subtext, I'd deliberately choose the sandwich half of bad omen just to make it clear that these sorts of games were not the right way to seek validation from me. It takes me some time to express what I feel about anyone. Him rushing the process to feel more secure himself was not fair.

This made me laugh so hard. I know this is a metaphor but it really is too much on the money for real life too. Yes. The indirect question. Very ENFP. I'm just too sensor to read into it.

So it goes like this:

*cuts a sandwich in half* "Pick one"

ENFP: "Which one do you want?" (is ENFP for: I want to give you the best half. The one you prefer.)

"Either. It doesn't matter. Pick"

ENFP: "Whichever half you don't want"

*Isweardagod! Hands a sandwich half over to ENFP* "Here"

*both happily watch TV*

----

 

[violet_crown]

This made me laugh so hard. I know this is a metaphor but it really is too much on the money for real life too. Yes. The indirect question. Very ENFP. I'm just too sensor to read into it.

So it goes like this:

*cuts a sandwich in half* "Pick one"

ENFP: "Which one do you want?" (is ENFP for: I want to give you the best half. The one you prefer.)

"Either. It doesn't matter. Pick"

ENFP: "Whichever half you don't want"

*Isweardagod! Hands a sandwich half over to ENFP* "Here"

*both happily watch TV*

----

Half of my frustration with the interaction might be CAUSED by the fact that I'm susceptible to a certain amount of intuitive, symbolic shenanigans myself. There's also mutual Fi chicanery as well. So there's enough in common between me and the ENFP that I know what they want, I know why they want it, but out of my own Fi brattiness I'm just like, "No. I'm not going to play your game, because you're saying you don't trust me. What about my feelings too wah. "

It's super childish, but I'd like to point out I 100% did not start it.

Contrast to the story that you gave where you're like, "It's just a sandwich." And the ENFP is like, "Oh yeah...that's true. I'll take this one."

Or an INTJ who could do some equal but opposite Jedi mind tricks back, "I gave you the half sandwich of bad omen because, in truth, the sandwich was always one. Both sides are unities of a greater whole. They belong together. The illusion of separation is just that." Then, like, bites his sandwich and her sandwich, because "it's really all one sandwich--our sandwich". *cue swooning ENFP*

Meanwhile, best ENTJs (bless our hearts) can manage is being the goddamn Williams Jennings Bryan of fucking lunch time meal sharing, "I WILL NOT BE HUNG ON A CROSS MADE OF SANDWICH."

 

[Starry]

I can't believe WuR knowingly chose the bad omen sandwich *wonders how she knew about the bad omen sandwich system*

 

[Virtual ghost]

With regards to ENFPs in general...Why is it not considered a legitimate want to want to take things slow and enjoy the journey?

I never said that it isn't. However when I ask a question since it is important for me to know the odds are that ENFPs will not give straight answer or they will get defensive or something. The ENFPs that I know/knew seem to think that a person can intuitively know where are we. But to me some "milestones" have to be defined verbally and clearly, since that provides closure that is VITAL for me.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]

"I WILL NOT BE HUNG ON A CROSS MADE OF SANDWICH."

This should be your sig. Or someone's! Don't let it go to waste

 

[1487610420]

this thread is getting me triggered :backout:

 

[violet_crown]

[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]



This should be your sig. Or someone's! Don't let it go to waste

It's been the secret motto of the politics subform for a smooth year now.

ETA:

this thread is getting me triggered :backout:

See what I mean ^^^

 

[Starry]

I never said that it isn't. However when I ask a question since it is important for me to know the odds are that ENFPs will not give straight answer or they will get defensive or something. The ENFPs that I know/knew seem to think that a person can intuitively know where are we. But to me some "milestones" have to be defined verbally and clearly, since that provides closure that is VITAL for me.

I'm not necessarily attached to you specifically seeing my point here but because I'm seeing so many value-based assumptions being made in this thread regarding ENFPs leading to what I believe are incorrect conclusions I'll end by saying...

You said that dating an ENFP that doesn't know what they want out of you or life is an easy way to get yourself disappointed.

I have a hunch here that when you are looking for "milestone information" and ask the ENFP you are dating ...they aren't saying "you know, I'm going to fuck with Virtual Ghost and make him intuitively guess as to what I want. I know this information is vital to him but I'm going to hold out on him just for the pure enjoyment of it"

No, I bet she's saying "I want to continue as things are." (enjoying the journey without expectations) <-which is why I asked you why that isn't a valid want. Because if you actually saw it as valid there would be no point in criticizing and acting like we're purposely being difficult and you can't be honest with us. You would see that you were being provided an answer as asked.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm not necessarily attached to you specifically seeing my point here but because I'm seeing so many value-based assumptions being made in this thread regarding ENFPs leading to what I believe are incorrect conclusions I'll end by saying...

You said that dating an ENFP that doesn't know what they want out of you or life is an easy way to get yourself disappointed.

I have a hunch here that when you are looking for "milestone information" and ask the ENFP you are dating what they want...they aren't saying "you know, I'm going to fuck with Virtual Ghost and make him intuitively guess as to what I want. I know this information is vital to him but I'm going to hold out on him just for the pure enjoyment of it"

No, I bet she's saying "I wantto continue as things are." <-which is why I asked you why that isn't a valid want. Because if you actually saw it as valid there would be no point in criticizing and actually like we're purposely being difficult and you can't be honest with us. You would see that you were being provided an answer as asked.

Actually it was alot more messy than that. However as I said in another thread I was dealing with girls that were messed up generally so my comment in the terms of my own experience doesn't really count. However to me it seems that the OP found himself in similar situation as me, so I decided to comment. (this thread isn't that much about ENFPs in general, it is more about unhealthy/lost in life ENFPs)

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I'm not necessarily attached to you specifically seeing my point here but because I'm seeing so many value-based assumptions being made in this thread regarding ENFPs leading to what I believe are incorrect conclusions I'll end by saying...

You said that dating an ENFP that doesn't know what they want out of you or life is an easy way to get yourself disappointed.

I have a hunch here that when you are looking for "milestone information" and ask the ENFP you are dating ...they aren't saying "you know, I'm going to fuck with Virtual Ghost and make him intuitively guess as to what I want. I know this information is vital to him but I'm going to hold out on him just for the pure enjoyment of it"

No, I bet she's saying "I want to continue as things are." (enjoying the journey without expectations) <-which is why I asked you why that isn't a valid want. Because if you actually saw it as valid there would be no point in criticizing and acting like we're purposely being difficult and you can't be honest with us. You would see that you were being provided an answer as asked.

I wanted to comment so bad on your earlier post. Got side-tracked on WuR funny post.

Man. It is so weird to see both sides of this.

I don't think it's vindictive or purposeful but young ENFP's can be very....inadvertent game players and sometimes purposefully so, in order to fulfill insecurity.

Every type can do this. There are threads where I know when ISTP is described and people are saying "just give him space" nah. Dude isn't interested. Or...maybe yeah space but also...who this person is as a person isn't clicking so "space" isn't the issue.

If you need a certain amount of immediate reciprocation? Emotionally? Physically? Figure it out but don't go for someone that pressures you for that nor anyone who it's a battle to get it.

I think this girl isn't a lost cause, for instance. I just don't think she is ready to give the OP what they want. Or, is willing to settle down enough to figure it out.

There is a two way street here. If the ENFP can't adapt to learn what the INTP needs, same thing. Why must one adapt to the other at the risk of themselves? It takes a bit of experience to bridge that.

Similarly, a 19/20 year old Fe inferior is in no position (generally) to have enough emotional know how to give a young ENFP enough leeway to let them run free. Even if they do - there is no guarantee (which is sort of what the INTP needs.)

Young Ne/Fe will run wild with speculation. (Mainly intps here).

Did you not see the ESTJ thread on ISTP? Same thing. "I want to know where we are going to be. Where are we going..."



Ok. So...no POV is "bad" or "wrong" but if natural compatibilty isn't there? If someone needs to know their 5 year plan? Shit. Like, I'm not for you. I not only can't give you that - it's kind of a deal breaker. Back off. Even if I love you - back off


But when you're 19/20 this becomes super personal.

Inferior Fe at that age is just no match for Fi aux. Fi is just too complex. Too far gone, tbh.

Inferior Fe is a puppy. Why won't you play with me all the time? It gets hurt easily when that feeling isn't *reciprocated* and shown *in kind*.

If I make time for you?' you make time for me. I dropped plans for you. You were busy. That kind of thing becomes fraught with alarm bells. Fe inferior is really sensitive.

And ENFP's aren't dialed in to that.

So. Regarding the thread I think more people aren't so much downing ENFP's but saying...this doesn't look good. Because if it looked good - he would already "get it" .... Follow?

 

[ceecee]

Half of my frustration with the interaction might be CAUSED by the fact that I'm susceptible to a certain amount of intuitive, symbolic shenanigans myself. There's also mutual Fi chicanery as well. So there's enough in common between me and the ENFP that I know what they want, I know why they want it, but out of my own Fi brattiness I'm just like, "No. I'm not going to play your game, because you're saying you don't trust me. What about my feelings too wah. "

It's super childish, but I'd like to point out I 100% did not start it.

Contrast to the story that you gave where you're like, "It's just a sandwich." And the ENFP is like, "Oh yeah...that's true. I'll take this one."

Or an INTJ who could do some equal but opposite Jedi mind tricks back, "I gave you the half sandwich of bad omen because, in truth, the sandwich was always one. Both sides are unities of a greater whole. They belong together. The illusion of separation is just that." Then, like, bites his sandwich and her sandwich, because "it's really all one sandwich--our sandwich". *cue swooning ENFP*

Meanwhile, best ENTJs (bless our hearts) can manage is being the goddamn Williams Jennings Bryan of fucking lunch time meal sharing, "I WILL NOT BE HUNG ON A CROSS MADE OF SANDWICH."

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Half of my frustration with the interaction might be CAUSED by the fact that I'm susceptible to a certain amount of intuitive, symbolic shenanigans myself. There's also mutual Fi chicanery as well. So there's enough in common between me and the ENFP that I know what they want, I know why they want it, but out of my own Fi brattiness I'm just like, "No. I'm not going to play your game, because you're saying you don't trust me. What about my feelings too wah. "

It's super childish, but I'd like to point out I 100% did not start it.

Contrast to the story that you gave where you're like, "It's just a sandwich." And the ENFP is like, "Oh yeah...that's true. I'll take this one."

Or an INTJ who could do some equal but opposite Jedi mind tricks back, "I gave you the half sandwich of bad omen because, in truth, the sandwich was always one. Both sides are unities of a greater whole. They belong together. The illusion of separation is just that." Then, like, bites his sandwich and her sandwich, because "it's really all one sandwich--our sandwich". *cue swooning ENFP*

Meanwhile, best ENTJs (bless our hearts) can manage is being the goddamn Williams Jennings Bryan of fucking lunch time meal sharing, "I WILL NOT BE HUNG ON A CROSS MADE OF SANDWICH."

I hereby nominate this post for Post of the Month.

And we should have a PotM process.

 

[Starry]

I wanted to comment so bad on your earlier post. Got side-tracked on WuR funny post.

Man. It is so weird to see both sides of this.

I don't think it's vindictive or purposeful but young ENFP's can be very....inadvertent game players and sometimes purposefully so, in order to fulfill insecurity.

Every type can do this. There are threads where I know when ISTP is described and people are saying "just give him space" nah. Dude isn't interested. Or...maybe yeah space but also...who this person is as a person isn't clicking so "space" isn't the issue.

If you need a certain amount of immediate reciprocation? Emotionally? Physically? Figure it out but don't go for someone that pressures you for that nor anyone who it's a battle to get it.

I think this girl isn't a lost cause, for instance. I just don't think she is ready to give the OP what they want. Or, is willing to settle down enough to figure it out.

There is a two way street here. If the ENFP can't adapt to learn what the INTP needs, same thing. Why must one adapt to the other at the risk of themselves? It takes a bit of experience to bridge that.

Similarly, a 19/20 year old Fe inferior is in no position (generally) to have enough emotional know how to give a young ENFP enough leeway to let them run free. Even if they do - there is no guarantee (which is sort of what the INTP needs.)

Young Ne/Fe will run wild with speculation. (Mainly intps here).

Did you not see the ESTJ thread on ISTP? Same thing. "I want to know where we are going to be. Where are we going..."



Ok. So...no POV is "bad" or "wrong" but if natural compatibilty isn't there? If someone needs to know their 5 year plan? Shit. Like, I'm not for you. I not only can't give you that - it's kind of a deal breaker. Back off. Even if I love you - back off


But when you're 19/20 this becomes super personal.

Inferior Fe at that age is just no match for Fi aux. Fi is just too complex. Too far gone, tbh.

Inferior Fe is a puppy. Why won't you play with me all the time? It gets hurt easily when that feeling isn't *reciprocated* and shown *in kind*.

If I make time for you?' you make time for me. I dropped plans for you. You were busy. That kind of thing becomes fraught with alarm bells. Fe inferior is really sensitive.

And ENFP's aren't dialed in to that.

So. Regarding the thread I think more people aren't so much downing ENFP's but saying...this doesn't look good. Because if it looked good - he would already "get it" .... Follow?

I don't think these two should date...you know that right? Like, I feel I've been pretty clear from the beginning on that. But it isn't because I think there's a problem with the ENFP...and I do feel the discussion has been led in that direction like "people will tell you who they are", "she's using him", "he clearly likes her more than she likes him", etc. etc.

I don't have time for an extended post but wanted to say...

I've never cheated, I've never been dishonest, or played games... I've had a handful of long term relationships with all but one ending badly (<-edit I mean, goodly) over a misunderstanding on his part (this was my doorslam)...but the rest of my ex's we ended our relationships in mutual agreement to move or pursue other things and remained close friends. And yet, if what is presented in the OP is fairly accurately portrayed...I have felt the same as that ENFP...I have said the same exact things... I have been accused of leading guys on many times and when you are young and don't ever want anything bad to happen to anyone ever...it's fucking confusing.

And I want to make this clear...I do not consider myself to be attractive or dynamic in any way. I honest to god think...that people are so starved for attention and kindness. I mean, I've been accused of leading people on...that I didn't even know existed. Like, I've actually had some guy say "that one time when you smiled and said 'hi'". So basically if you seem kinda dumb and in need of control...and you smile and say hi a lot..in this day and age you're a player. <-I remember how painfully confusing this was when I was around her age and it gives you a complex and you do start to feel like you need to protect people from you which is so again...painfully confusing.

I'm not saying the ENFP in the OP isn't bad news...but I don't think she is. And I don't think we need to say she is in order to say "don't date her because you can't handle it."

 

[entropie]

They are volatile? I always thought them to be pleasantly uncompromising

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I don't think these two should date...you know that right? Like, I feel I've been pretty clear from the beginning on that. But it isn't because I think there's a problem with the ENFP...and I do feel the discussion has been led in that direction like "people will tell you who they are", "she's using him", "he clearly likes her more than she likes him", etc. etc.

I don't have time for an extended post but wanted to say...

I've never cheated, I've never been dishonest, or played games... I've had a handful of long term relationships with all but one ending badly over a misunderstanding on his part (this was my doorslam)...but the rest of my ex's we ended our relationships in mutual agreement to move or pursue other things and remained close friends. And yet, if what is presented in the OP is fairly accurately portrayed...I have felt the same as that ENFP...I have said the same exact things... I have been accused of leading guys on many times and when you are young and don't ever want anything bad to happen to anyone ever...it's fucking confusing.

And I want to make this clear...I do not consider myself to be attractive or dynamic in any way. I honest to god think...that people are so starved for attention and kindness. I mean, I've been accused of leading people on...that I didn't even know existed. Like, I've actually had some guy say "that one time when you smiled and said 'hi'". So basically if you seem kinda dumb and in need of control...and you smile and say hi a lot..in this day and age you're a player. <-I remember how painfully confusing this was when I was around her age and it gives you a complex.

I'm not saying the ENFP in the OP isn't bad news...but I don't think she is. And I don't think we need to say she is in order to say "don't date her because you can't handle it."

Fair enough. I just don't think this translates without saying the why and the why may not be pretty translated.

I think we may agree on explanation but not translation.

Everyone has some complex from being misunderstood? INTJ's are robotic, ISTP's non-emotive. ESTJ's controlling.

Each strength has a mis-alignment or an ability to mis-communicate intention to another.

If an ENFP started this thread, I don't think the responses would be much different if they were discussing an INTP and I think the INTP may be colored with just as much negative press, afraid of committment, thing, too. Which to an INTP may seem unfair. Maybe. I don't know.

 

[entropie]

Truth is nobody has negatives. Just others telling him.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Truth is nobody has negatives. Just others telling him.

Yeah-ish. Exactly.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I don't think these two should date...you know that right? Like, I feel I've been pretty clear from the beginning on that. But it isn't because I think there's a problem with the ENFP...and I do feel the discussion has been led in that direction like "people will tell you who they are", "she's using him", "he clearly likes her more than she likes him", etc. etc.

I don't have time for an extended post but wanted to say...

I've never cheated, I've never been dishonest, or played games... I've had a handful of long term relationships with all but one ending badly over a misunderstanding on his part (this was my doorslam)...but the rest of my ex's we ended our relationships in mutual agreement to move or pursue other things and remained close friends. And yet, if what is presented in the OP is fairly accurately portrayed...I have felt the same as that ENFP...I have said the same exact things... I have been accused of leading guys on many times and when you are young and don't ever want anything bad to happen to anyone ever...it's fucking confusing.

And I want to make this clear...I do not consider myself to be attractive or dynamic in any way. I honest to god think...that people are so starved for attention and kindness. I mean, I've been accused of leading people on...that I didn't even know existed. Like, I've actually had some guy say "that one time when you smiled and said 'hi'". So basically if you seem kinda dumb and in need of control...and you smile and say hi a lot..in this day and age you're a player. <-I remember how painfully confusing this was when I was around her age and it gives you a complex and you do start to feel like you need to protect people from you which is so again...painfully confusing.

I'm not saying the ENFP in the OP isn't bad news...but I don't think she is. And I don't think we need to say she is in order to say "don't date her because you can't handle it."

I do feel your pain about having people mistake friendliness for interest. It happens to me often. And people have these expectations....ugh.

My favorite occasion of this was when I first stated dating my wife, but we hadn't told anyone yet. We happened to go separately to visit a good friend of both of ours. The friend's roommate was most definitely not appealing to me in any shape or form, but while waiting for future wife to appear, I chatted with this roommate for bit, simple ENFJ friendiness.

Anyway, at class on Monday, some girls I knew said they knew I met someone exciting and new over the weekend. I was a bit confused, because my future wife and I hadn't told anyone. And then I found out it was this roommate telling the world she met this great guy and that I was interested in her! Ugh, I had never given the roommate even a second of consideration, but she was making wedding plans.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know this is a ENFx problem and not just a ENFP problem. I am regularly shocked at how many still are mistaking my friendliness for invitations for more.... ugh..... I had yet another start pursing me this week... ugh

 

[entropie]

I do feel your pain about having people mistake friendliness for interest. It happens to me often. And people have these expectations....ugh.

And one day, Moses said, your arrogance will be your downfalll... *thunderstorm*

 

[Starry]

Fair enough. I just don't think this translates without saying the why and the why may not be pretty translated.

I think we may agree on explanation but not translation.

Everyone has some complex from being misunderstood? INTJ's are robotic, ISTP's non-emotive. ESTJ's controlling.

Each strength has a mis-alignment or an ability to mis-communicate intention to another.

If an ENFP started this thread, I don't think the responses would be much different if they were discussing an INTP and I think the INTP may be colored with just as much negative press, afraid of committment, thing, too. Which to an INTP may seem unfair. Maybe. I don't know.

Too much feeling?
Whenever I come to one of these type of posts I'm like "I've clearly overemoted." My bad.

So let me quickly remedy this by saying...
1.) While I didn't fully grasp what you said in the first two sentences...everything else I completely agree with and didn't think anything I said or did would make it seem like I didn't...or that I would need reminding of that I should say. Again, I totally agree.
2.) Just because I'm coming up against so many of the ways I'm misunderstood...just because I'm feeling that...doesn't mean that I don't totally love this thread. I think this thread is fantastic.

I hope that helps.