FREEDOM !

[Kanra Jest]

My, my. The replies.

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] Assuming true freedom exists. Closest thing it could be is anarchy in the literal sense. No rules, no structure. All up to 'we the people'. This idea that WE the people can truly thrive healthily in an environment of anarchy is heavily dependent on human nature. If we can, that means humans can live in relative peace. This means humans can inherently be good.

Freedom in itself is a power no? Well then even freedom can corrupt. The absolute ability to do whatever you wish. Now, having power in authority? It always corrupts? It can go both ways. Human nature in itself is corrupt and that is the source of the corruption, not the position itself.

[MENTION=22833]Legion[/MENTION] Freedom of speech is all well and good. Unless someone throws out a bomb threat and encourages paranoia as a prank. Threatens to kill others, ect. Goes so far with humor that someone (usually extremist) gets offended and tries to kill him. It has its dangerous borders.

Chaos in the sense I'm using it is disorder. Like when people are freaking out and start stealing stuff from stores to make a protesting point. That's immature chaotic behavior and order ends up needing to be desperately restored. Not a good thing for society. Or extremists who blow shit up for their own god, which is chaotic and dangerous. Causing us to need to find some way to organize this chaos before it consumes us.
[MENTION=17729]Typh0n[/MENTION] I've nothing wrong with having freedoms. I definately enjoy them and don't like being controlled. I merely mean absolute freedom in the literal sense of no society hardly even. No rules. No laws. Because yes, I agree. Governmental societis can be corrupt, our "civilized society" is indeed corrupt and I'm not too enthused about that. But I still think there's a potential for something better without the need for anarchy.

 

[Mole]

There does seem to be an intellectual deficit, in that the deficient can only think of one thing at a time. For instance, the deficient can't think of two things in a dynamic relationship such as freedom and equality, but can only think of one thing at a time, and champion it as though it is a moral virtue, when it is simply an intellectual deficit.

 

[Mole]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] Assuming true freedom exists. Closest thing it could be is anarchy in the literal sense. No rules, no structure. All up to 'we the people'. This idea that WE the people can truly thrive healthily in an environment of anarchy is heavily dependent on human nature. If we can, that means humans can live in relative peace. This means humans can inherently be good.

I don't believe this at all. I am simply being verballed.

I believe in the dynamic relationship between freedom and equality. This relationship underlies the values of the West, giving rise to liberal democracy and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

[Kanra Jest]

I don't believe this at all. I am simply being verballed.

I believe in the dynamic relationship between freedom and equality. This relationship underlies the values of the West, giving rise to liberal democracy and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

There could be potential. But it isn't solid even to this day. Humans should have many rights to be themselves (aside from societal pressures that are inescapable, and anything encouraging paranoia should be cautioned). However far it can be taken, while upholding security and organization that corruption and abuse don't become too rampant. I'm all for individual rights, so long as it doesn't drag the whole system down too. Without ability to rise and grow.

With today's day and age, equality even has a questionable foundation.

 

[Mole]

With today's day and age, equality even has a questionable foundation.

The foundation lies in our belief we are all children of God, expressed in our equality before the law, and cofirmed in blood in WW II, leading to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

It would seem to be an irrevocable foundation.

And while we practice freedom and equality, the Islamists practice submission and discrimination.

 

[Kanra Jest]

The foundation lies in our belief we are all children of God, expressed in our equality before the law, and cofirmed in blood in WW II, leading to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

It would seem to be an irrevocable foundation.

And while we practice freedom and equality, the Islamists practice submission and discrimination.

Assuming we are indeed "Children of God" he must have poor standards. Speaking of which America being founded on Christian principles is also very much questionable.

Universal Declaration... yet limited as a human construct. But I agree otherwise, about the extremists compared to America for the most part.

 

[Mole]

Assuming we are indeed "Children of God" he must have poor standards. Speaking of which America being founded on Christian principles is also very much questionable.

Universal Declaration... yet limited as a human construct. But I agree otherwise, about the extremists compared to America for the most part.

The legal system in both the US and Oz is based on Roman Law, trial by legal adversories, and Christian principles.

And Christian principles are based on the Christian doctrine that we are all children of God. This leads to equality before the Law and interestingly, what is not forbidden is permitted.

So what is not forbidden is permitted is our definition of freedom, and equality before the Law is our definition of equality.

And after our victory over totalitarianism in WW II we codified freedom and equality into the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

 

[Blackout]

I feel like you're just picking random things and equating them to freedom

 

[Blackout]

Seriously though, I almost feel sometimes like we're all just basically apes who became too smart for ourselves and we just spend all this time trying to pretend or hide the fact from ourselves that we're not and we come up with ideas about civilization but we're still pretty much just apes. Really, really smart apes who try to pretend otherwise. Look! it's well civilized ape folk! I've heard about those. Is that why we're so violent? maybe that's what freedom is to us, we're like giant apes who have been enslaved by much more advanced and intelligent sentient life from other planet and we live in giant farms and are all just being herded out of pity and entertainment, while fetishtize our own bondage. I mean, if it wasn't for this we'd just sit around in tall grassy fields all day lounging about, smoking and having sex.

 

[Jaq]

Defining freedom is tricky. It's like defining what it is to be a person in the modern world.

I don't mean to sound cynical, in fact I'm aiming to sound far from it. Freedom though, is illusive. We live in a world where 'Freedom' can be revoked in a blink of an eye. In history this has happened out of fear as one of the main reasons. So all it takes is the fear of the masses and suddenly freedom is gone.

I suppose though, I'll define it as the freedom to live how one pleases as long as it doesn't encroach on another person's freedom.

 

[Mole]

I suppose though, I'll define it as the freedom to live how one pleases as long as it doesn't encroach on another person's freedom.

This is freedom from rather than freedom to. So what are we free to do?

Most all we are limited by our perceptions, and by how we perceive, called epistemology.

So how do we expand the limits of our perceptions?

Well, we perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see.

For instance, each word is a distinction, so the more words we know, the more we perceive, and the freer we become.

For instance, there are more words in English than any other language, 1,025,109.8 to be precise.

So the English speaker makes more distinctions, perceives more, and is freer.

So it is no accident that the children of Shakespeare created parliamentary democracy.

 

[Jaq]

This is freedom from rather than freedom to. So what are we free to do?

Most all we are limited by our perceptions, and by how we perceive, called epistemology.

So how do we expand the limits of our perceptions?

Well, we perceive by making distinctions, and the more distinctions, the more we see.

For instance, each word is a distinction, so the more words we know, the more we perceive, and the freer we become.

For instance, there are more words in English than any other language, 1,025,109.8 to be precise.

So the English speaker makes more distinctions, perceives more, and is freer.

So it is no accident that the children of Shakespeare created parliamentary democracy.

Barring an English focused thought about freedom for a moment. There is one universal freedom that is undeniable and cannot be taken away by any cardinal ventures. That is the freedom of thought. Now certainly, there is danger in sharing your thoughts with others. To keep one's thoughts to oneself though, that is a sort of freedom that one always will have. We are always free to think what we please.

 

[wool]

Freedom means i have a choice to do what i want. With that being said, no one can take my freedom away, only my life.

The best they can do to remove freedom is make choices harder.

The devil wants to take your freedom away.

 

[Typh0n]

The devil wants to take your freedom away.

So they say. Yet, historically, it has always been "Gods people" who take others freedoms away.

 

[Poki]

The devil wants to take your freedom away.

ok...i dont fear the devil just like i dont fear god. welcome to freedom of choice.

does god send you to the devil or does the devil pull you into hell?

 

[fetus]

I was having a conversation with an autistic boy at the camp I was working at last week. He was somewhat hard to follow, but when he asked questions, they were so sudden and profound. Suddenly he asked me, "What is freedom?"

I had to stop and think for a second. I'd never really thought about it. I replied, "The power to make your own choices."

 

[Lark]

I was having a conversation with an autistic boy at the camp I was working at last week. He was somewhat hard to follow, but when he asked questions, they were so sudden and profound. Suddenly he asked me, "What is freedom?"

I had to stop and think for a second. I'd never really thought about it. I replied, "The power to make your own choices."

At its most basic I believe that is the case, I believe in free will, despite the distorting and predisposing effects of determinism, sociobiological and sociological.

I believe that everyone experiences primary bonds, in the family, with parents, if they are fortunate enough, this is similar to attachment theory, though as individuation takes place people have to break their primary bonds or come to term with them breaking, a lot of people find this too much and a fear of freedom leads to them adopting an escape from freedom, like authoritarianism, autonomaton conformity, destructiveness.

Its not all bad news though because the drive towards greater freedom is part of human nature, being free to develop, grow, optimise their capacities for love/relating and reason, its one of the oldest and greatest stories ever told.

 

[flourine]

This video explains it all

 

[Mole]

I was having a conversation with an autistic boy at the camp I was working at last week. He was somewhat hard to follow, but when he asked questions, they were so sudden and profound. Suddenly he asked me, "What is freedom?"

I had to stop and think for a second. I'd never really thought about it. I replied, "The power to make your own choices."

And freedom includes taking responsibility for the consequences of our choices.

Choice without responsibility is the wet dream of narcissists.

This why narcissists favour fantasy, because it is choice without responsibility.

 

[LovecraftianMonstrosity]

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