Extreme Frugality

[uumlau]

^^ To each their own taste, BUT

I would note that things are MUCH smaller than they look. You might not think it's so small at first, but having experienced living on a sailboat for a couple weeks at a time, it gets really small really quickly after a few days.

 

[RobinSkye]

I endorse a lot of the kinds of advice I see advocated in those links, but I think that to a degree they are too extreme if you adopt everything.

The real lesson is that everything is a trade-off. Everything. Other ways of saying this are that everything has a cost, or there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The things I like about what I read in sites like those is the focus on PAYING ATTENTION to what the trade-offs are. Once you do that, the rest of the advice is redundant.

What I find extreme is focusing on particular ways of dealing with finances, advocating kind of a minimalist ideal. For some people (especially Enneagram 5s who eat this stuff up like candy and can often do the spartan lifestyle very well) this is great advice. For the rest of us who don't enjoy all of that, we need to CHOOSE how we pay for things in a conscious way, but not necessarily adopt every single practice.

For instance, I heartily agree with living close to work, with paying for your car in cash (if that means you spend $5k or less on a used car, so be it), not paying for cable TV, the overall sense of anticonsumerism and just not spending money on shit that you don't need. Those things are doable by most people even in the poorest of circumstances.

However, I'm perfectly happy to accept certain costs that don't seem to be OK with people writing that advice (hence the "extreme" part). I have a mortgage, BUT I found a house that fit my specifications for a reasonable price, I paid 20% down (not something ridiculous), and 10 years later I refinanced it to a 15 year mortgage, saving me $60k in the long run. So far all my cars have been leased or had loans, but my next one won't be, and only my first care (a very cheap one) had a sucky loan that made it cost almost twice its retail price, since I had no credit but needed the car for driving to work. I will PAY for plumbers and electricians to install hardware and gas appliances, because I want the job done right by an expert, not by my own half-assed guesswork. I have a NICE internet connection because that is what I want. While I see the potential for going into real estate investment and/or rental income, there is a reason why not everyone does that, and certain things about the economy wouldn't work if everyone did (or you get a housing bubble ... hmmm ...).

It's all a trade-off. Calculate how much things will cost you in REAL terms, and then make the call. Sometimes the correct action IS to go into debt. Businesses wouldn't be able to function very well without incurring debt, as income can be sporadic over the year even as the bills are constant. Debt is a measure of risk. If you are borrowing a lot of money or you are only offered a high rate of interest, you are taking a HUGE risk, which is bad. If it's a small amount of money, and/or the interest is low, it is usually a small risk.

So MY advice to you would be to set your own priorities. If the idea of DIY appeals to you (in ways that it doesn't to me), go for it: it's a strength you can take advantage of. But on the other hand if the shows on cable TV help to make your life more fulfilling, go ahead and pay for it. Figure out what works for you, with an eye to the trade-offs. If you keep track of the trade-offs, of what things REALLY cost you in the long run, you'll be fine.

As e5, can confirm that I don't buy frivolous things. I am happy so long as I have quality resources which allow for many opportunities within themselves (such as a laptop or access to games, films, internet, etc.) Since these things can become focus points, other things except for essentials become unnecessary. I naturally compare value of items when looking to buy something as simple as food or writing materials.
I will have a bit of debt to pay off, unfortunately. But I think higher education has been the correct path for me. The way I tend to live should - hopefully - make paying off debt rather quick.

 

[Ursa]

I love practical topics like this.

Here are some recommendations that I decided on and now use:
1. Do not purchase an item unless you a) are one hundred percent in love with it and b) will use it repeatedly over time. Take time to think about the purchase. Perhaps leave the store and when necessary return later with your decision.

2. Ban snacks, drink water only and pass on dessert. This cuts bills down so much. Even diminutive purchases like a Starbucks drink, a candy bar or trail mixes can add up quickly and enormously over one month. Add up any purchases like these that have been documented on your receipts to see what you could have saved.

3. Plan weekly meals in advance based on weekly sales at the store. Also prepare in bulk. I have an inexpensive chicken and rice recipe that makes too much, but I can eat the remainders over several days.

4. Use coupons! These little coupon books show up in my mail all the time. I used to overlook them and toss them, but they actually have so many coupons I can use. Even better, plan your coupon use based on weekly sales because sometimes you can double up. Last month, there was a sale on red pasta sauce and I also happened to have a coupon on hand. I paid around $0.89 per item.

5. Stock up when there is a sweet deal. There may not be a sale when you later run out and need more.

6. Buy clothes only at clearance prices. Today I purchased two t-shirts that were literally $2.69 each!

BONUS: Here are some really inexpensive but quite tasty recipes!:

Homemade Black Bean Veggie Burgers

Frugal Homemade Pizza Dough (complete with a cost breakdown)

 

[Patches]

I find that thinking about purchases in terms of 'hours of my time' they're worth helps keep me from making frivolous purchases and being more mindful of where my money is going.

So for example, at $20 per hour? Is that videogame worth 3 hours of your life? Is eating out at a restaurant worth an hour or two of your life? Sometimes the answer is yes, and that's fine. But I think it helps steer things more towards, "You know, it would be cheaper for me to just cook at home." And if you make closer to $10? A videogame is 6 hours. A restaurant is 2-4 hours.

Framing things that way, really, makes my money 'more valuable' to me. It makes me really consider the necessity of a purchase.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I find that thinking about purchases in terms of 'hours of my time' they're worth helps keep me from making frivolous purchases and being more mindful of where my money is going.

So for example, at $20 per hour? Is that videogame worth 3 hours of your life? Is eating out at a restaurant worth an hour or two of your life? Sometimes the answer is yes, and that's fine. But I think it helps steer things more towards, "You know, it would be cheaper for me to just cook at home." And if you make closer to $10? A videogame is 6 hours. A restaurant is 2-4 hours.

Framing things that way, really, makes my money 'more valuable' to me. It makes me really consider the necessity of a purchase.

I started doing that with entertainment more than a decade ago. Do I buy a book or check it out when available at the library? I don't buy many books (or movies anymore). Videogames are pretty cheap entertainment when you play a game for 100+ hours.

The problem I developed is time spent in person with family and friends is so valuable that it doesn't compare to the cost. So I don't run the numbers on tower type of things.....

 

[EJCC]

Something I've started doing that I hope will help with my (mild) tendency towards impulse spending on "useful" things:

Every time I find something online that I'm interested in buying, I either add it to my Amazon wishlist, or my Pinterest shopping list pinboard. Then I leave it there and forget about it for a while. When I come back to it with fresh eyes and without the high of pre-spending excitement, I can decide whether or not I actually need that thing -- can I DIY a solution instead? am I actually going to do enough of that thing to warrant having a special gadget just for that? -- and only if it passes that test will I buy it.

The thing that I really like about this solution is that it doesn't eliminate the excitement of planning my purchases and making a shopping list of things that I still might buy -- so all the fun is still there. Because for me, the planning is WAY more exciting than the actual spending.

 

[Jaguar]

I am definitely in the wrong thread.

 

[Mole]

The American tradition of frugality and dissent is a Puritan tradition which has given rise to Capitalism and the Protestant Work Ethic, and to great dissenters like Professor Noam Chomsky at MIT.

So Puritanism has left Americans feeling good about frugality, and the more frugal the better; and it has left Americans feeling good about dissent.

So frugality and dissent are good religious imperatives for Americans. And plenty and conformity leave Americans feeling guilty.

Bless their cotton white socks.

 

[Patches]

The American tradition of frugality

In my experience, the number of Americans that are not frugal far surpasses those who are.

This is why copious amounts of credit card debt is pretty common.

Not exactly an American Tradition. Over-indulgence is more the American way than frugality.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

In my experience, the number of Americans that are not frugal far surpasses those who are.

This is why copious amounts of credit card debt is pretty common.

Not exactly an American Tradition. Over-indulgence is more the American way than frugality.

It was a great tradition, especially in the North. The South was all about speculation and get rich quick from the early days of the Virginia colony, which is one reason slavery grew. By the time of the Civil War, most slave owners were highly leveraged.

Easy credit was a big factor in the Crash of 1928, as speculation and easy credit had spread.

Credit cards were still pretty rare until the 60s for most people, who instead bought things on layaway, paying up front over time for things.

The truth is debt is a form of slavery and getting completely out of debt is freedom.

Americans are just caught up in a mindset imposed by the advertising age. After 9/11, Bush asked everyone to go dpend money to save the economy. It hit me as wrong and started top help me slightly break out of the spending trance....

 

[Mole]

We only have to watch an American Western to see the self divided between the local Puritan church and the drinkin', gamblin', whorein', fightin', saloon.

Americans always want to be good in church but are tempted by the saloon.

Some say the American genius is to have it all: the innocent church and the guilty saloon. And taken to the next level, some say, when you can fake it in America, you've got it made.

 

[LovecraftianMonstrosity]

The tiny home movement appeals to me., not so much because of prices, but because it is good for the earth and because to me real wealth comes from being content wherever you are.

 

[kyuuei]

Sooo, I'm not a financial expert by any means of the word, buuttt this is my favorite financial topic of all time.

Currently, 2/3rds of my paychecks are going towards my home's down payment. Saving up for land takes some serious effort. If it weren't for that, I could easily already drop down to working part time and chill out for.. like.. eternity.. But one thing at a time.

I don't have financial debt, I have a good credit score, shove a few bucks into savings and investing occasionally, etc. etc.

I did this many different ways.. One of the biggest things I did was serve my country, which gave me free education, free health care for life, and a resume that will build on anything I do. I also went to school without working full time (besides when I very first started) and saved money doing stereotypical stuff: eating at home, living with parents and paying rent vs by myself, etc. etc. I know there are many people that cannot serve, but there are many things I could not do either--like live without a car since I was in the deep south. Pretty much impossible to get anywhere without a car.

I held down a lot of different jobs, and I was not afraid of taking on anything from hard labor unloading trucks and using a forklift to kid-friendly yoga-mom-inspired yogurt shops. I did anything and everything as long as it paid and gave me the flexibility I needed at the time.

I also saved money where ever I could. I still spent money on the things that mattered to me at the time--I don't find the video games I ever bought a waste because at the time they gave me joy, and relaxation, and they also kept me from going out and spending money at shops, restaurants, bars, etc. When you're grinding for bosses it's easier to say "Yeah, just eat this sandwich at home" vs going out to eat. But... I for my clothes for free or less than $3 a piece. Mostly for free. I wear things until they're dead and done. I'm not very fashionable as you can imagine. (This has changed since I moved to NC where fashionable people get rid of shit constantly). I don't spend money on a lot of vices people have: Make up, new gadgets, alcohol, fancy/organic food, music concerts, non-free events, smoking or e-cigs, coffee/caffeine in general, etc. I don't spend money on anything like that... No monsters, no star bucks, no nothing. I just don't do it.

I take care of my health and exercise.. I do preventative maintenance on my teeth and go to the dentist and actually listen to them, I floss twice a day without fail, I do universal precautions for healthcare (washing hands, cotton underwear, sanitation precautions for food preparation, etc.) to keep my health in order. I work out and generally stick to something active most days of the week. This isn't hard-and-fast, but it is general stuff that research has shown to help people save money, time, and be happier.

... I think the biggest thing though is that I take pleasure in saving my money. I genuinely enjoy not dissolving my money straight away--but rather having an allocation that feels right when it goes into that slot. While I've become more relaxed since getting my first decent paying job in my life and generally speaking I am less frugal than I ever have been... I still think I am far more frugal than the average person I come across, and certainly more so than the people getting my same pay rate. Generally speaking, it is because of this principle.. I don't enjoy money disappearing. I like knowing where it goes and when it is going there.

I can write more specific things if people want them, though I've sprinkled these things throughout the forum. I like the Moustachian principles as they can apply to one's own life--obviously I have a car and I use that car daily, but that's suitable for where I live. You need your own brand a frugal. People who live pay check to pay check know how shitty it is and feels. And... Really.. I'd give up anything to never do that again. And I do.

 

[1487610420]

reuse qtips and rinse coffee papel filter

 

[Domino]

I can coupon my ass off. I'm not at the point where I can walk out of a grocery store with a truckload of stuff for $2, but I did, in just scanned coupons, over $800 last year, not including side earnings, sales, clearances and freebies. I hate the word freebies.

No splurging, except maybe yarn or a book or renting a movie. Eating at home for every meal. Gradually understanding how to garden.

Things have always been tight financially. Very tight. Learning how to be smarter with what little you have is important. My ESTJ mother calls me resourceful in the extreme. A high compliment. She once handed me her car keys on a Sunday night, told me she had a flat tire, and said "I know if you go out with the car, you'll come back with the tire fixed. I don't know how, but you will. You always do." And I did.

Yes, I wish I had a million dollars. Being poor sucks.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

I can save money on entertainment.
I have an imagination xD
No but really, I am making small steps into resourcefulness.
I am trying not to eat out often, bring my own coffee to classes, only buy things if I really need them and look after everything I get so it lasts as long as it can. Heck, I have even taped up my reading glasses lol.
I am subbing so I can get more money saving tips, and progress up the saving ladder.
Thanks for the thread.

 

[1487610420]

I can coupon my ass off. I'm not at the point where I can walk out of a grocery store with a truckload of stuff for $2, but I did, in just scanned coupons, over $800 last year, not including side earnings, sales, clearances and freebies. I hate the word freebies.

No splurging, except maybe yarn or a book or renting a movie. Eating at home for every meal. Gradually understanding how to garden.

Things have always been tight financially. Very tight. Learning how to be smarter with what little you have is important. My ESTJ mother calls me resourceful in the extreme. A high compliment. She once handed me her car keys on a Sunday night, told me she had a flat tire, and said "I know if you go out with the car, you'll come back with the tire fixed. I don't know how, but you will. You always do." And I did.

Yes, I wish I had a million dollars. Being poor sucks.

how to make a million dollars

 

[kyuuei]

Thinking more on the topic of extreme frugality, I think the major separator of this lifestyle from just being money savvy is how it permeates every aspect of your life willingly.

I don't think I'd call people forced to live with nothing extremely frugal at least for the purpose in this thread, even though they are, but more savvy with what they have. Rich people can be savvy too.

But having the option to do something, and frugality being the primary influence on one's daily actions, really separates things.

 

[Domino]

how to make a million dollars

 

[1487610420]

I think Mole is correct (OMG, did I actually type that? ).

The quick way to classify it is "first world problems". When people have plenty, behaviors that made a lot of sense when scarcity was the rule start being dropped. The problem is that they're dropped entirely, as opposed to by degree.

If you're just starting out, you have to live as if scarcity is real, because in spite of your world having plenty of stuff, you haven't earned it yet. Worse, if you grew up with in a good home with plenty of furniture and food and stuff and never wanted for anything, you don't realize that your family didn't START OUT that way. It's what you're used to, and it's easy to try to duplicate that standard of living. Except that standard of living required two middle-aged adults earning money at near the peak of their careers (especially so near the time when you moved out).

So aside from student loan debt (which is its own huge problem!), young adults out on their own for the first time are very likely to try to live at that accustomed standard that they cannot afford at all. These bad habits can continue well into middle age and beyond.

Hence, learning habits of frugality (if not "extreme" frugality) can go very far. Personally, I think this stuff should be taught in high school. I had maybe one class that came close (it was called Home Economics, of all things, not personal finance).

When I try to put things in perspective for younger friends of mine, I tell them that I did not own a car until I was 30, and I did not buy a house until I was 40 (ten years ago, now). If I'd tried to do either of those any earlier, I would be much poorer now, having paid even more interest on unnecessary debt at a time when I could barely afford anything.

do you buy any of richard kiyosaki's advice eg go into debt for investing/leveraging other's money aka what the banks/finance world lives off?