Blackwater
New member
- Joined
- May 29, 2007
- Messages
- 454
- MBTI Type
- ERTP
So the Fluffy Ts and Cold Fs thing is kind of an ongoing clichee within MBTI. Even von Franz wrote a book about that somewhere in the 20'ies or 30'ies adressing exactly that.
Anyway, its sort of the state of affairs in my social circle as well. The discourse continuously locks feelers in roles where they are expected to provide gaity and warmth, or emotional support after someone is on the recieving end of a critique. Sometimes, they are even assigned magical powers, - much like smurfs
I once wanted to start a discussion with my friends where the premise basically was: "Please explain how feeling can be counted on to be rational and objective, because when you read about the feeling function it seems that it really isn't." That didn't go so well: Only a few thinkers responded and when I pointed this out, one thinker told me: "Yearh but you initiated the discussion on T terms". - I don't know exactly what that was supposed to mean but I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts.
(By the way I know all about Jung's definition of Feeling as being a rational function, but in that case Jung defined rationality as the quality of being internally consistant. Which is not what I am getting at above. Sharia Law is pretty internally consistant, after all, yet very irrational when it comes down to it.)
In my experience, attempting to discuss feeling and feelers objectively is a discoursive nightmare: You immediatly get hit with the same accusations that prevent gender difference, race difference, intelligence etc. from being discussed rationally. Furthermore, you also get kind of incriminated ad hominem; casted as a fun-spoiler, unable to grasp the charms and enjoyment of feeling. (Cue Monty Python's "Logic versus Sex").
Incidentally, I am not saying, that there is necessarily anything to racism, sexism etc. - just like I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts. But I find it striking that some people employ the same rhetoric in the "defense" of feeling as they would employ in their defense of any other group that has traditionally been percieved as weak (that would be women, Africans etc.). So what I would like was some good, rational arguments on the merits of Feeling that avoid the championing of feelers as human cuddle toys.
It may sound provocative, but believe me, I have asked and read around and am yet to find such arguments.
Anyway, its sort of the state of affairs in my social circle as well. The discourse continuously locks feelers in roles where they are expected to provide gaity and warmth, or emotional support after someone is on the recieving end of a critique. Sometimes, they are even assigned magical powers, - much like smurfs
I once wanted to start a discussion with my friends where the premise basically was: "Please explain how feeling can be counted on to be rational and objective, because when you read about the feeling function it seems that it really isn't." That didn't go so well: Only a few thinkers responded and when I pointed this out, one thinker told me: "Yearh but you initiated the discussion on T terms". - I don't know exactly what that was supposed to mean but I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts.
(By the way I know all about Jung's definition of Feeling as being a rational function, but in that case Jung defined rationality as the quality of being internally consistant. Which is not what I am getting at above. Sharia Law is pretty internally consistant, after all, yet very irrational when it comes down to it.)
In my experience, attempting to discuss feeling and feelers objectively is a discoursive nightmare: You immediatly get hit with the same accusations that prevent gender difference, race difference, intelligence etc. from being discussed rationally. Furthermore, you also get kind of incriminated ad hominem; casted as a fun-spoiler, unable to grasp the charms and enjoyment of feeling. (Cue Monty Python's "Logic versus Sex").
Incidentally, I am not saying, that there is necessarily anything to racism, sexism etc. - just like I refuse to believe that rational discussion is the sole domain of the Ts. But I find it striking that some people employ the same rhetoric in the "defense" of feeling as they would employ in their defense of any other group that has traditionally been percieved as weak (that would be women, Africans etc.). So what I would like was some good, rational arguments on the merits of Feeling that avoid the championing of feelers as human cuddle toys.
It may sound provocative, but believe me, I have asked and read around and am yet to find such arguments.