Azure Flame
Permabanned
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2010
- Messages
- 2,317
- MBTI Type
- ESTP
- Enneagram
- 8w7
So I had a conversation with [MENTION=14840]Hypatia[/MENTION] the other night, as well as a few others. There is a theory I'm investigating, and I'd like everyone to contribute their own thoughts on the matter.
Basically its like this. I'm an ESTP. my primary function is Se. I'm an experienced martial artist, and if you put me in a group of other martial artists at a tournament, I would be able to look at each person and read their body language. I can tell you, before a match begins, who is going to win and who is going to lose.
However, sometimes I can't. When this happens, I think the person is hiding something from me. Either they have a trick up their sleeve they aren't telling me about, or they're lying, or hiding something else.
In fact, as a dominant extroverted sensor, I EXPECT everyone to submit to my Se. In a room full of martial artists, if I feel that I am the best one there after taking a look at everyone around me, I EXPECT everyone to treat me as such. If they don't, it means they're either better than me, or lying (and therefore untrustworthy).
In recent events, I've been building a gym. I am the most experienced person there working construction. My business partner is an ENFJ.
Everyone comes up to me and asks me how to do x y z, and I give them a quick lesson. I go around teaching everyone how to read rulers, how to cut straight lines with a skillsaw, etc. The ENFJ, however, does not ask for help. He is the only person in the room unwilling to admit his lack of experience or skill to me (for example, he once asked me how to read a ruler). As a result, my trust in him begins to dwindle.
I question him on why he acts like he knows what he's doing, when he doesn't. Suddenly he's shocked to realize I know that he isn't what he says he is.
We've had arguments over arguments. He's in charge of the gym when I'm not around, and I have no intention of undercutting his authority or making him look bad, so I talk to him in private.
As I spoke to hypatia, she mentioned that its possible that he values his facade of strength and competence. Its going to be very hard for me to get him to open up to me on this subject and actually admit that he needs my competence to survive. But at the same time, he constantly tries to get me to drop my guard and admit that I need him as well. Our communication issue is one of 2 dominant types expecting the other to submit to the others' strong points, even though they aren't something we necessarily completely value in life. He does me favors and expects me express my appreciation to him, but I never do, and it frustrates him. Likewise, I put him into difficult tasks and he gets very frustrated because he doesn't want to let go of his facade, but at the same time needs my guidance in these situations. We've had some issues of trust in this regard. I don't admit, verbally, my appreciation for him when he asks for it, and he doesn't admit my superior experience.
So I begin to wonder, I, as well as most every other human, have some kind of facade that I maintain, that is important to me.
I'm still figuring out what my facade is. Typology tells me what to think, but I'd rather figure it out for myself. I know I have a facade of some kind though. He has made me aware of it. Perhaps I feel great fear of betrayal, and he knows he's able to protect me from that and wants me to admit it, when I don't fully realize that's my issue.
So, my question is: do other types expect everyone to bow down to their dominant function? Is this something ALL personalities share? or is it more complicated than that? Is this only a trait of dominant personalities, or do we all expect it in some way?
IE: ESTJs expect to be recognized for their experience (YOU NEED MY EXCELLENCE), ENTJs expect to be recognized for their foresight (YOU NEED MY GUIDANCE), ESTPs expect to be recognized for their strength (YOU NEED MY STRENGTH), ENFJs expect to be recognized for their charisma and helpfulness (YOU NEED MY SOCIAL PROTECTION)
Thoughts?
Basically its like this. I'm an ESTP. my primary function is Se. I'm an experienced martial artist, and if you put me in a group of other martial artists at a tournament, I would be able to look at each person and read their body language. I can tell you, before a match begins, who is going to win and who is going to lose.
However, sometimes I can't. When this happens, I think the person is hiding something from me. Either they have a trick up their sleeve they aren't telling me about, or they're lying, or hiding something else.
In fact, as a dominant extroverted sensor, I EXPECT everyone to submit to my Se. In a room full of martial artists, if I feel that I am the best one there after taking a look at everyone around me, I EXPECT everyone to treat me as such. If they don't, it means they're either better than me, or lying (and therefore untrustworthy).
In recent events, I've been building a gym. I am the most experienced person there working construction. My business partner is an ENFJ.
Everyone comes up to me and asks me how to do x y z, and I give them a quick lesson. I go around teaching everyone how to read rulers, how to cut straight lines with a skillsaw, etc. The ENFJ, however, does not ask for help. He is the only person in the room unwilling to admit his lack of experience or skill to me (for example, he once asked me how to read a ruler). As a result, my trust in him begins to dwindle.
I question him on why he acts like he knows what he's doing, when he doesn't. Suddenly he's shocked to realize I know that he isn't what he says he is.
We've had arguments over arguments. He's in charge of the gym when I'm not around, and I have no intention of undercutting his authority or making him look bad, so I talk to him in private.
As I spoke to hypatia, she mentioned that its possible that he values his facade of strength and competence. Its going to be very hard for me to get him to open up to me on this subject and actually admit that he needs my competence to survive. But at the same time, he constantly tries to get me to drop my guard and admit that I need him as well. Our communication issue is one of 2 dominant types expecting the other to submit to the others' strong points, even though they aren't something we necessarily completely value in life. He does me favors and expects me express my appreciation to him, but I never do, and it frustrates him. Likewise, I put him into difficult tasks and he gets very frustrated because he doesn't want to let go of his facade, but at the same time needs my guidance in these situations. We've had some issues of trust in this regard. I don't admit, verbally, my appreciation for him when he asks for it, and he doesn't admit my superior experience.
So I begin to wonder, I, as well as most every other human, have some kind of facade that I maintain, that is important to me.
I'm still figuring out what my facade is. Typology tells me what to think, but I'd rather figure it out for myself. I know I have a facade of some kind though. He has made me aware of it. Perhaps I feel great fear of betrayal, and he knows he's able to protect me from that and wants me to admit it, when I don't fully realize that's my issue.
So, my question is: do other types expect everyone to bow down to their dominant function? Is this something ALL personalities share? or is it more complicated than that? Is this only a trait of dominant personalities, or do we all expect it in some way?
IE: ESTJs expect to be recognized for their experience (YOU NEED MY EXCELLENCE), ENTJs expect to be recognized for their foresight (YOU NEED MY GUIDANCE), ESTPs expect to be recognized for their strength (YOU NEED MY STRENGTH), ENFJs expect to be recognized for their charisma and helpfulness (YOU NEED MY SOCIAL PROTECTION)
Thoughts?