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  1. #6291
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    I'm sure E_D won't mind, he butts into everyone's conversations.
    does he? that's another point for ESFJ then

    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

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  2. #6292
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    I'm sure E_D won't mind, he butts into quite a few conversations.
    What can I say? I see a squirrel and I chase it!

    Really though, it's just the format of an online forum. I hardly ever go through an entire thread so I don't get the context or always realize people are in the middle of a public conversation, so I see a post I like, and make a comment. IRL I don't do that, that's just rude and awkward :P
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
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  3. #6293
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    like i said...regardless this thread doesn't warrant requests. but i guess i did misinterpret what he was saying then sorry about that @Enthusiastic_Dreamer



    yeesh, i got chills reading that one. no wonder you stan madonna
    @Kierva is right that my comment towards Yama was out of empathy, and one way I tend to show it is through personal experience to show the other person I can relate to them. Other times it's just being there with them in silence. But no, I'm not too confused. I don't think I will ever stop looking deeper into my type though and considering possible other options, so your perspective as well as others' is certainly valued. I did just come across a section on Socionics Types that talks about how IEE explain ideas or concepts to others and I TOTALLY relate to that omg haha. (That's why my videos posted are so fricken long lol) I HAVE to give context since that's how I learn things.

    Oy! going astray there.

    But no worries Chan

    Gonna tag @themightyfetus in here too. I really don't have any sore feelings towards anyone anymore from my original Type Me thread, just getting that out there. It's in the past, I got over it, came to some realizations. We're all good here
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt
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  4. #6294
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    It's all good @Enthusiastic_Dreamer. People will always see different sides of you, based on their own experiences and perceptions. Much of it may be true but it's only one piece of the puzzle.

    I am sure that there would be some people who would consider me an introvert, sensor, or a thinker because they see certain prominent traits about me and they aren't necessarily wrong. However, I don't think they understand the motivations behind why I do things... Which is fine by me because then I can stay in the background and do my own thang. Lol
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  5. #6295
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Hmm, well if you wanted more reasons I could outline a few from what I've seen on the forum.

    Your interactions tend to go very smoothly. Not to say you go about socializing with a certain "finesse" but I've noticed that even during conflicts with escalating levels of heat you tend to stay in the middle man position in one or two ways - delving into a "bigger picture" problem at large catalyzing the conflict, being playful and joking with others inadvertently helping prevent either side from getting far out of hand, etc. Those with an Fe ego (and ESFJs moreso than ENFJs due to differing interaction styles) value harmonious social interactions, fostering an upbeat and positive emotional environment where people can interconnect with others and communicate with each other. In that way I see you as that same kind of pleasant and tranquil.

    In the same way I said in the past that @themightyfetus excels at seeing the world in an optimistic light, I've seen the same kind of rose-tinted view of life come through in some of your posts. I think one time when I was lurking through the random thought thread I liked something you said about how you rediscover who you are when you gaze up at the stars. I think these very romantic portrayals of the world clue me into ESFJ, as a type that values happy and positive environments of course sees the world in a happy and positive light as well. And I think this also relates to what you experience as your Fi going "deep" (although admittedly I've never fully grasped what you meant when you said that haha). iirc you described as your Ne wanting to get to know everything, but your Fi provides accentuates it by warranting further thorough investigation. From an alternative perspective, it could be that wanting to know everything and gaining a deep understanding of it could be more rooted in Fe, as trying to intimately understand so much relates back to interconnecting with others and creating a warm and empathetic atmosphere. And on the flip side, Ne is less like "ooh shiny object" syndrome ( @OrangeAppled once said she actually finds this symptom more in ExFJs, due to tertiary Pe and to keep the momentum of positive interaction flowing) and actually more disinterested by a surprising amount of what the world has to offer. I don't know about going deep, but I'd say the Ne ego rather latches onto ideas and concepts its engaged by and then seeks a way to bounce ideas off others because it's that building of ideas that is stimulating. So when I hear about the idea of gathering a deeper understanding in relation to one's environment, I think Fe.

    And just to pull up a specific quote:



    ^This is something I've also seen common in ExFJ - stereotyped as "the givers" but I think more than anything else what they give is a sense of value at the expense of their own. I think there is a kind of social anxiety that can exist in Fe types (but especially ESFJ as Si can make them especially anxious about what can go wrong...which is why 6 is probably a common Enneagram typing for both SFJs), so while they grace others with an inherent respect and value they may be hard on themselves because of how much they perceive themselves as not being good enough. I think that's why self-love is a concept that resonates with many ExFJs as its a therapeutic concept to them, and I also think that's why so many ESFJs can misidentify as NFP nowadays as the idea of listening to one's own needs and caring for oneself can seem like Fi from the get-go. In addition the comment itself is...classically e2 at the very least. 2 gives so much love to others, but it stems from a lack of the own absence of love they possess for themselves. And while 2 and 7 are both positive outlook, it manifests differently. In 2, positive outlook manifests in how it influences and relates to its surroundings (much like what I said above about Fe...and its no surprise above all type combinations 2's correlation with Fe has been one of the strongest). On the other hand, 7's positive outlook manifests in the corners it cuts to escape from its own emptiness (the keyword being emptiness rather than shame). And while I could believe the idea of you chasing your own tail in that way, I do also feel a shame or insecurity regarding your sense of identity...and your naturally consistent positive influence in forum interactions is clear to me.

    So there are a few reasons I could churn out for you if you were feeling in the dark about these suggestions


    This is really good Chanaynay!
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  6. #6296
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    Did he ask for it?
    WTF?
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  7. #6297
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kierva View Post
    Did he ask for it?
    I think the value of type is to better understand yourself and other people. If this is a forum for those kinds of conversation, then I don't think that it necessarily requires consent, especially if what's actually being said is not really hurtful. @Chanaynay wasn't saying anything offensive either about Dreamer or about ESFJs.

    The other point is that if Dreamer's experience of being ENFP doesn't line up with that of Chan's or other ENFPs, then why should they not be able to be upfront about that disconnect? It's not a rejection of Dreamer; it's an affirmation of their own experience.

    Personally, I've been annoyed when I've seen people claiming to be ENTJ more out of a desire for some perceived cache associated with it, then anything to do with how they actually relate to the world. Then becoming hysterical when someone dare questions it. It defeats the whole point of self-exploration, and becomes more about...idk. Something else. I just don't think it serves anyone, really.

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  8. #6298
    Not Sexy. Not ENFP. Starry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato Nadeshiko View Post
    i think anyone who was having their type second-guessed would want to hear reasons why besides vibes though

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthusiastic_Dreamer View Post
    Why I finally gave up asking those that saw me as ESFJ. That, and I just didn't care anymore. Those "vibes" are everywhere ahh!!!

    This right here may in fact be another argument for Fe/Si as well E_D if that's what you are looking for. I wasn't sure when I originally read lux's response whether lux was being serious about "anyone" or being a bit tongue-in-cheek but your request for detailed, linear, connect-the-dots styled type-related explanations and arguments has always thrown me some until now. That is not my preference at all and would likely cause me to shut down to the idea of it. Ne is not compelled to make sense of things...in fact...we often take an idea that makes sense and do everything we can to turn it into something that doesn't make sense at all. The more traditional and linear the style...the more anxious I become. I want to freedom to create my own reasons...I want to take someone's idea or opinion and play with it and frankly, the longer something doesn't make sense...the better.

    Likewise, I'm starting to get the sense you are uncomfortable with having people question your type. I've seen you make reference to it quite a bit like above. It's almost like...well, like you said in that one post in the random thoughts thread "reaffirm" your type here on this forum as well. I'll be honest and tell you that this is a phenomenon I recognize well out of Fe at e2 and e9. For Fe at e2 which is an image type...there is a strong compulsion towards collective understanding. They care so deeply for others and want to make sure everyone is on the same page which extends into their own sense of identity as well. They just don't feel entirely right unless everyone is in agreement about who they are even...that's how much love they extend to others. And it is this that sorta causes a state of limbo when someone comes in and questions who they are. They work to get back to that shared understanding.
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  9. #6299
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    And it is this that sorta causes a state of limbo when someone comes in and questions who they are.
    And I just wanna add that, with type-related things on here specifically, it's often not even a questioning of one's identity explicitly but rather the mapping out of it. Like I have no doubt in my mind of the amount of disorganization and laziness an ISTJ 6 is capable of, so calling into question someone who may identify as INTP or the like isn't necessarily refuting the fact that they feel that they're lazy or disorganized...it's just reconsidering the trajectory of manifestation of those qualities. So likewise, if someone identifying as ENFP has ESFJ brought to their attention it's not as much a challenge of their "ENFP" qualities and a suggestion of "ESFJ" qualities but rather a new perspective on how that person's core qualities could be explained and mapped out from a different perspective.
    7w6 - 2w3 - 8w7 sx/so

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  10. #6300
    Dream without Hesitation Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    This right here may in fact be an another argument for Fe/Si as well E_D if that's what you are looking for. I wasn't sure when I originally read lux's response whether lux was being serious about "anyone" or being a bit tongue-in-cheek but your request for detailed, linear, connect-the-dots styled type-related explanations and arguments has always thrown me some until now. That is not my preference at all and would likely cause me to shut down to the idea of it. Ne is not compelled to make sense of things...in fact...we often take an idea that makes sense and do everything we can to turn it into something that doesn't make sense at all. The more traditional and linear the style...the more anxious I become. I want to freedom to create my own reasons...I want to take someone's idea or opinion and play with it and frankly, the longer something doesn't make sense...the better.

    Likewise, I'm starting to get the sense you are uncomfortable with having people question your type. I've seen you make reference to it quite a bit like above. It's almost like...well, like you said in that one post in the random thoughts thread "reaffirm" your type here on this forum as well. I'll be honest and tell you that this is a phenomenon I recognize well out of Fe at e2 and e9. For Fe at e2 which is an image type...there is a strong compulsion towards collective understanding. They care so deeply for others and want to make sure everyone is on the same page which extends into their own sense of identity as well. They just don't feel entirely right unless everyone is in agreement about who they are even...that's how much love they extend to others. And it is this that sorta causes a state of limbo when someone comes in and questions who they are. They work to get back to that shared understanding.
    I will definitely keep these thoughts in mind and look into e2 some more.

    Regarding my image, I'm not sure if I value people having a collective understanding of my image, but comes from a deeper core issue of being accepted or at least feeling acceptance from others. This actually ties into what @Wind Up Rex mentioned of not appreciating those that choose a type because of certain type biases, and really, that's actually what grates me most about some of the comments made of my typing since I get the feeling that there is an implied bias I have against some types or functions which couldn't be further from the truth. No matter how often I state this, it seems some people use that argument for "allowing" me to see ESFJ in a positive light. I don't need that at all, I have nothing against it.

    To get back to this deeper core insecurity of mine, I feel this is perhaps where this Fe is coming from since I approach others with that value held tightly. From multiple personal experiences growing up, I've felt ostracized and put down for who I was. I felt so low and disgusted with myself. Looking at who I am today, I almost take a sort of pride, though that's not quite the word, in my acceptance of other's no matter their flaws. And it isn't fake at all. Come to me with any taboo interests and I would look at you the same as I would anyone else. So when people call into question my image or typing, and it feels like the reason they are, is because they see me as carrying this bias against a type or function, that's when it goes beyond irritating for me and downright offensive.

    That's as personal as I'll leave it for the time being since this subject is really hard for me to talk about. Admittedly I started getting emotional towards the end of that last paragraph.

    But this reply isn't solely in response to you, as it's also more a general statement I wanted to get out there. I don't want people to feel like they can't comment on my type anymore because they don't want to hurt my feelings or whatever. There are just sides to me that I know can explain where many of the things everyone is picking up on and be done with it in a heartbeat, but, that's where I stop and it gets too personal to disclose.

    But again, I'll take your words and @Chanaynay's to heart, and I know just how long your posts must've taken, I've written my fair share of short novellas on the forum. The interesting thing I've been thinking about regarding my enneagram typing is that I wonder if I'm even a 7. Yes, I seek out experience and love to distract myself, but is that my core fear in of itself or is it just a response from something else that looks like a 7 on the surface. That's what I'm really interested in these days.
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt
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