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  1. #1
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Default Question for ISTPs on a painful/awkward issue...

    I have a brother whose alcoholism is tearing his family apart. Literally. Currently. His wife is ready to leave *this week* with her 2 young sons (4 year-olds).

    This guy is an ISTP; his father was an ISTP and also an alcoholic. Please... if this was you, would you be open to an intervention? How would you want to be approached about this?

    Any advice at all?

  2. #2
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    Hell no. Confront my ISTP friend about his drug abuse and you will find yourself dealing with someone extremely difficult.

    I think in your case more than likely the key would be getting a big group of people and putting the ISTP on the spot. Pointing out all the BS he has down to everyone. You should all picture yourself as the frying pan that already has the butter melted while you are all in the circle of the pan as that the egg starts a frying.

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Ugh. Honestly, I would have no idea what to do.

    An INTP still has the Ti primary but is usually able to accommodate conversation and speculation on things; even if he was stubborn, he'd listen (and wax philosophically on what was going on, annoying everyone and not seeming to take things seriously).

    ISTPs tend to see "the System" as trying to control their freedom and often just digs in when pressure is put on them to conform to someone else's demands, though.

    There might not be a way to prevent the separation; maybe he needs it in order to motivate him to stop.

    I know at least one person here is married to an ISTP. perhaps one of them will have some ideas...
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  4. #4
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
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    An alcoholic ISTP? Now, there is obtuseness times four.

    Confrontation will simply cause him to temporize. Only consequences -- material deprivation -- might jostle him into rehabilitation.

    Either way, your concern should be the welfare of your nephews. Get them and their mother out of there.

  5. #5
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    When my ISTP best buddy was going this way, I found that what made him most receptive to criticism and taking things on board was, ironically, to go out to a bar with him and have a man to man talk over a few beers. After listening to him rant and being supportive and basically showing that I sympathised with his issues and stuff, I found that I was then able to find the right moment to say "But mate, you have been going over the top a bit - no offence to you but I have been feeling sorry for your poor mrs lately, you've been a bit of a c**t" and in that context he was able to hold up his hands and say "Yeah, I suppose you're right", and there was the opening to continue with "But think of it from her point of view, imagine you were sitting there [as she does, description] and someone came in and [what he does, description], it's not really on is it mate? C'mon, let's be honest here..."

    You have to use just the right balance of friendliness and light-heartedness, together with a certain firmness and forthrightness. Don't waste time with hints or outright accusations - hints go right over their heads and accusations just put their backs up.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    I guess I always have to ask, what makes you believe the person is ISTP? Have they disclosed this to you, or is this a self-assessment on your behalf? You also reference to your brother, however his father, as being alcoholic. Are you making some connection that since they both are alcoholic, then they are both ISTP and did you know your brother's father?

  7. #7
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I guess I always have to ask, what makes you believe the person is ISTP? Have they disclosed this to you, or is this a self-assessment on your behalf? You also reference to your brother, however his father, as being alcoholic. Are you making some connection that since they both are alcoholic, then they are both ISTP and did you know your brother's father?
    I wanted to ask the same question, but I thought to leave it alone.

    I'm not understanding if there's a connection being drawn between ISTP and alcoholism or if you're asking for help in reaching an ISTP alcoholic. I think those are two separate issues.

    I'd first address the alcoholism problem. I personally don't think this is time to leave a person unsupported, even if they're a type that typically doesn't respond well to this kind of intervention. If he's at all aware of his behavior and has a smidgen of motivation to change, then don't abandon him. IMO, personality type is irrelevant at this point.

    If the wife and children are in any danger, then they need to leave immediately. There are many websites that gives advice on how to deal with the general problem of alcoholism. Aside from this very meager advice, I'd seek professional help.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it is meant as "He is an ISTP and an Alcoholic, how do I reach out knowing that?".

    Coming from that situation, I think his type is largely a 2nd thought. The first and foremost problem is to identify his addiction. Is he hiding it? Does he know it causes problems? Is he in denial? Does he blame others?

    A checklist like that will help you decide how to act. The basic rules, I think, go something like this;

    1) Hiding or signs of guilt = intervention. It's possible to bring it out into the open and thus create a support network and create new expected behaviour. Professional help is a good idea here too, but it isn't as required. Just read a lot about it at the very least.

    2) Denial - It can be intervention, but this is the "hard core" intervention. Normally the family had to leave already, job loss or DUIs. This breaks the denial and is extremely painful. Get professional help no matter what on this one.

    3) Denial + blame + uncontrolled outbursts/any sign of violence - Leave first, worry about your friend second.

    Normally I'd cut the friend off at point #3. Addiction is a black hole of suffering. Make one major try, offer to be there when they have come to terms with their addiction and leave.

    The ISTP part is more about how to deal in the immediate situation - how will you approach him within the meeting, etc. A tool for communication. The drinking sytles supercede type for sure, even if type does contribute to which category he'd be in.

  9. #9
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There might not be a way to prevent the separation; maybe he needs it in order to motivate him to stop.
    At this point we are all agreed the marriage is over.

    Our goal is to get him into treatment and preserve whatever rights he has to his sons.

  10. #10
    homo-loving sonovagun anii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Coming from that situation, I think his type is largely a 2nd thought.

    The ISTP part is more about how to deal in the immediate situation - how will you approach him within the meeting, etc. A tool for communication. The drinking sytles supercede type for sure, even if type does contribute to which category he'd be in.
    Well, when I contemplate approaching him both his and my dad's type come to mind. Neither are/were in touch with their "feelings" at all. Neither seem/seemed have any psychological or emotional insight. So approaching them from a feeling or even values orientation (my sister in law is INFP) seems doomed to fail.

    We never did an intervention with my father because I was too afraid at the time (in my 20s) to broach it with my brothers.

    I'm still very hesitant and frankly, regretted placing it on the table with my younger brother (ISTJ) the moment it was uttered. However, I love my sister in law and of course my nephews.

    Both of my parents are deceased so my brothers and I are... all we have. I feel I should at least make the attempt this time. That way, even if it fails, I can say I tried.

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