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  1. #71
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Saenan and Blackmail, is this really necessary?
    This seems to become a personal, emotional, issue...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  2. #72
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    That kind of simplistic reasoning just makes me laugh because it is on par with racism and other forms of prejudiced thinking.
    Yes I agree. I hope MBTI wouldn't be for that (=racism and prejudiced thinking of types).

    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Saenan and Blackmail, is this really necessary?
    This seems to become a personal, emotional, issue...
    Emotional NT's......!
    Peace.

  3. #73
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    "I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell." —Harry S. Truman
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  4. #74
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Exactly. You would think someone who claims to have such an excellent understanding of MBTI theory would realize that it is just a theory and would approach it from a realistic perspective rather than using it to make presumptuous judgments about others that disregard individual differences. That kind of simplistic reasoning just makes me laugh because it is on par with racism and other forms of prejudiced thinking.
    Don't think I'm some kind of MBTI integrist who enjoys to put people in boxes.

    However, I was trying to answer that:
    "Amazing... now we have an NTP attempting to induce types boiling down to being the same ... oh, if they're "mature" or have worked hard enough... give me a break or just admit you don't think there is such a thing as MBtypes. "

    So, if I don't fit perfectly into how some people perceive MBTI theory, I'm criticized, but if I prove I know the theory well, I'm criticized too... Grmmmbbbl... There's no way to escape, it's a trap!

    I think there is a median way between integrism, and being a complete unbeliever. Am I wrong?

    Anyway.
    Yes I think types are somehow arbitrary, and judging people solely according to their MBTI types is quite dangerous. Besides, the MBTI was not created to discriminate people, but to improve the over-all quality of their interactions.

    Nonetheless, following the theory to the letter can be interesting too because it can lead to absurd outcomes. And such outcomes always suggest new Ideas, new pathways when you have to interpret them. Basically, it's how advancements are made in modern Science.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  5. #75
    Senior Member Cality's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Basically, it's how advancements are made in modern Science.
    I guess, you mean in philosophy, not in science...

  6. #76
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    Just letting all concerned know that Blackmail and I have taken it to PM. I did think some would be interested in the "maturing" of Fe in an INTP .. which began for me around 45/50.. especially as it pertains to the OP but we will discuss this privately. Sorry for any perceived derailing.

  7. #77
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Nonetheless, following the theory to the letter can be interesting too because it can lead to absurd outcomes. And such outcomes always suggest new Ideas, new pathways when you have to interpret them. Basically, it's how advancements are made in modern Science.
    Advancements in science are made through methodology and measurement. There is no method in making arbitrary judgments, and you certainly can't measure the outcomes. At best, you are making intuitive leaps, which is as Cality suggested, simply an exploration of a philosophy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #78
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    Sorry for any perceived derailing.
    I'll join Seanan on this: Sorry for any perceived derailing

    (Yes, I may have been a little presumptuous)
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #79
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    If this is true, then, I'd say it's a case of mutual incomprehension, then.

    But seriously, I doubt it. INTPs are NOT supposed to develop Fe. According to theory, it's the function they use the least, they feel the most awkward with.

    But anything is possible. After all, we're individuals and types are somewhat arbitrary.

    ---

    Here, I'm a stuck between my Feeling and my Thinking.

    I hear my Fe advising me "Perhaps this could be better to apologize to Seanan before she reacts too nervously. Furthermore, you genuinely like her, and making her angry would be an especially stupid outcome. INTPs often feels very insecure (especially if you question their rationality/inherent superiority), and you've already noticed they have a tendency to hold long term grudges."

    But in the same time, my Ti is growling inside me, saying "she obviously knows nothing of Fe or the individuation process, or very few. The more I analyze her sentences, the more irrational I find them.
    Why did she refer to an inductive reasoning, somehow? It seems to lack consistency, context."


    Then my Fe corrects my Ti "If an INTP is behaving this way, she may be experiencing stress. Should I relieve her? How shall I proceed then?"

    She said I'm presumptuous.

    My weak Fi complains "Well, you often are presumptuous when you get stuck in debates."
    My Fe helps this tiny voice: "And it's true, you know nothing of her..."
    My Ti yells: "But no matter what she said, she's wrong and that's all that matters."
    But suddenly, I have my dominant Ne which happens to go by (he's the king anyway) "My dear Ti, even if everything fits within logical parameters, the truth may always be elsewhere. Maybe there's a new idea to learn: We should try to ask her why she seems so convinced you're an NF?"

    Fe gladly approves -it hopes to neutralize my own aggressiveness-. Ti reluctantly approves -it knows she's wrong, but it wants to know why-.



    Agreed!
    That's a beautiful Fe conversation! And you've illustrated how wonderfully function pairs work together. My Fe-Se works together, not my Fe-Ni. Ni works with Ti. Your Ne-Fe cooperate, while Ti-Si double up. Individuation is something we all should work to attain as far as cognitive processes are concerned, but it's not talked about much. Thanks for bringing it up.

  10. #80
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    I personally have no problem using Fe, but overall I use it in a logical way. I have an Idealist mother and sister, and sometimes being calm won't stop them, so I have to become emotional to make them understand that I'm not willing to compromise or cave in on something.

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