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  1. #21
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Not entirely. I wouldn't try to automatically imbue functions with actions and skills because...



    ...with an inadequate understanding of what functions mean you can ascribe character traits to them improperly which can cause odd test results
    But I answered based on how I related to the questions, not to achieve certain function results. Aren't those tests supposed to be for anyone, even if you've never heard of functions?

  2. #22
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    But I answered based on how I related to the questions, not to achieve certain function results. Aren't those tests supposed to be for anyone, even if you've never heard of functions?
    This is true. A lot of my problems with tests in general is that functional descriptions get simplified in order to get them testable in the first place. I'm looking through a cog processes test now, and I see Fi descriptions that a lot of Ti users will identify with simply because they're describing judgments based on subjective criteria, but they're not distinguishing between the impersonal or personal nature of that criteria, which is the only difference between Ti and Fi.

    For example, the Fi question:

    19. Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.
    Well, no shit, who doesn't? Such a question doesn't make a distinction as to how you arrive at what personal happiness means to you. Are we to understand that you can't be personally happy with the fulfillment of other functions, you need to use Fi? Of course not.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    I agree with Jock. It seems to me that most Ti doms will naturally score higher on Fi on these function tests because a lot of Fi "traits" as tested by these tests are really also applicable to Ti attitudes. Most Ti doms have well thought-out principles and standards they take pride in that they can be very clear in expressing and very rigid in defending. This, on most function attitude tests, shows up as Fi, even though the conclusions themselves were arrived at through Ti. Therefore the Fi score can become rather inflated. I tend to score rather high in Fi as well, but I know that I do not exhibit Fi at all. This is just a shortcoming of the test.

    Here are some "Fi" statements on the test that can also be indicative of or arrived at through strong Ti, or other factors.

    19. Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.

    25. Always remain true to what you want for yourself or others.

    36. Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside.

    43. Continually examine if choices harmonize with important beliefs.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I agree with Jock. It seems to me that most Ti doms will naturally score higher on Fi on these function tests because a lot of Fi "traits" as tested by these tests are really also applicable to Ti attitudes. Most Ti doms have well thought-out principles and standards they take pride in that they can be very clear in expressing and very rigid in defending. This, on most function attitude tests, shows up as Fi, even though the conclusions themselves were arrived at through Ti. Therefore the Fi score can become rather inflated. I tend to score rather high in Fi as well, but I know that I do not exhibit Fi at all. This is just a shortcoming of the test.

    Here are some "Fi" statements on the test that can also be indicative of or arrived at through strong Ti, or other factors.

    19. Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.

    25. Always remain true to what you want for yourself or others.

    36. Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside.

    43. Continually examine if choices harmonize with important beliefs.
    That makes a lot of sense.

  5. #25
    Consulting Detective Mr. Sherlock Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I agree with Jock. It seems to me that most Ti doms will naturally score higher on Fi on these function tests because a lot of Fi "traits" as tested by these tests are really also applicable to Ti attitudes. Most Ti doms have well thought-out principles and standards they take pride in that they can be very clear in expressing and very rigid in defending. This, on most function attitude tests, shows up as Fi, even though the conclusions themselves were arrived at through Ti. Therefore the Fi score can become rather inflated. I tend to score rather high in Fi as well, but I know that I do not exhibit Fi at all. This is just a shortcoming of the test.

    Here are some "Fi" statements on the test that can also be indicative of or arrived at through strong Ti, or other factors.

    19. Freely enjoy doing what you want for your own personal happiness.

    25. Always remain true to what you want for yourself or others.

    36. Evaluate what is worth believing in and most important to who you really are inside.

    43. Continually examine if choices harmonize with important beliefs.
    Oh yeah, well I'm quite strong on all of those things, and I think you're right. I guess the values I have are mostly based on logic and reasoning as to how the following of them could work effectively for the betterment of humanity. I am very honest and true to myself, but that is a bit like Ti self-control I think.

    I probably do have a bit higher Fi than the average INTP, but I think you're right. A lot is probably Ti mistaken for Fi.

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Your Fe shouldn't be too high at all, and that's reflected in your test. High Fi INTPs I think are just confused. You're allowed to have emotions without Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
    I agree with Jock. It seems to me that most Ti doms will naturally score higher on Fi on these function tests because a lot of Fi "traits" as tested by these tests are really also applicable to Ti attitudes.
    yeah. i totally agree with this. sometimes i get a little confused between Ti and Fi too, because in some ways they are really similar. they run in perfect parallel with one another, and some test questions are like uh... well... anyway, i've heard both described as "subjective internal consistency checkers", and i think it's a good description, with the simple difference being that Ti checks logic and Fi checks associations.

    and for me, it's hard to have my Ti be very high, because my Te is decent and the majority of my other mental energy is being used up by Ne and Fi. on the other hand, for an INTP, whose Fe is rather low, it seems reasonable that Fi could be on par with it, even though the traditional function order places it dead last.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Stevo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsherlockholmes View Post
    I probably do have a bit higher Fi than the average INTP, but I think you're right. A lot is probably Ti mistaken for Fi.
    Ultimately it's up to you to determine how much Fi you really have. I, however, tend to subscribe to the school of thought that you really only express your type's official function order except in times of great great stress. I've been through Fi benders before and they're never pleasant for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    yeah. i totally agree with this. sometimes i get a little confused between Ti and Fi too, because in some ways they are really similar. they run in perfect parallel with one another, and some test questions are like uh... well... anyway, i've heard both described as "subjective internal consistency checkers", and i think it's a good description, with the simple difference being that Ti checks logic and Fi checks associations.

    and for me, it's hard to have my Ti be very high, because my Te is decent and the majority of my other mental energy is being used up by Ne and Fi. on the other hand, for an INTP, whose Fe is rather low, it seems reasonable that Fi could be on par with it, even though the traditional function order places it dead last.
    These are some interesting thoughts. It makes sense for that to be true. I'm just wondering, though, what do you mean when you say that Fi "checks associations?"

  8. #28
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Your Fe shouldn't be too high at all, and that's reflected in your test. High Fi INTPs I think are just confused. You're allowed to have emotions without Fi. For me, both Fi and Fe are suppressed. But, this may be because I intellectualize my emotions and values and just consider them thoughts. So maybe I'm low Fi via emotional reclassification? lol.
    Maybe you're confused? :P

    No confusion here.

    I think Beebe is wrong and Thomson is right.

    Beyond that, I think circumstances can push one to develop functions which are not a natural strength in an atypical order. That's what happened to me, aar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #29
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    That's called getting older
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #30
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    That wouldn't be atypical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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