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Thread: INTP and GOD

  1. #11
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    I believe in God. Just that, I believe he's the supreme ruler not my friend but a must respected ruler.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  2. #12
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    I was raised Catholic. I no longer believe in God, though I think such a thing is theoretically possible. Of course, I think it's only slightly more possible than vampires or fairies, which I also can't disprove. For me, it's not about what's believing is easier (I feel life would be easier and less scary if I believed in God), just what I feel is correct, generally based on many hours of collected reflection.

    Of course, some time after giving up God (I became agnostic at a young age and more of an atheist years later), I found a sort of comfort in it. God is either deeply oppressive (my impression of most Gods of popular religion) or doesn't care (which means there's no point in placing faith or time in It either).

    Also, if you say you "are Christian, but don't take things literally/interpret things for yourself", you aren't Christian. You're you-ist. To be honest, I don't see the point in assuming parts of the Bible are true and parts are. It's either all necessarily fallible (which makes one an agnostic, deist, or theist) or none of it is.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  3. #13
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    . For me, it's not about what's believing is easier (I feel life would be easier and less scary if I believed in God), just what I feel is correct, generally based on many hours of collected reflection.
    I've been given the opposite hints. Some call them chances and coincidences, I say not. This reality we have, I'd argue if its true. Life before birth, nonexistence, I lean to death for the answers to those.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  4. #14
    desert pelican Owl's Avatar
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    Why wouldn't you believe in God?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Why wouldn't you believe in God?
    Because of the lack of logical consistency connecting the God concept and the "real" world. Possible but the generally known God conflicts with the natural laws of physics. It ruins what is true data.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  6. #16
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Well, the burden of proof is on you. I have reasons why I don't believe in God, but the fact is that the best of them can't disprove God, because a negative cannot logically be proven. You are the ones who have to prove there is such a thing as God. I can say "I don't believe there's a teapot floating someplace between the Earth and Mars" (to steal Bertrand Russell's example) and you can say "why?" and I can say "well, no one's ever definitively seen it, there's no compelling evidence they exist, science and logic and empirical evidence provide no support for the idea, there may be good reason and motive for man to create such a fictitious myth, etc" and you'd say "That doesn't actually PROVE the teapot doesn't exist" and I'd have to say "this is true". The same logic applies to fantasy creatures or WMDs in Iraq. Should I believe in elves, then?

    I certainly don't believe in a God that has a direct intervention in our lives or has provided anything like heaven. An apathetic creator, who takes no stock or care in our existence and doesn't provide ant afterlife or creates miracles, I guess I'm more open to that, but I don't see any good reason to just jump to that conclusion either.

    That's a very brief response, of course. There are more nuanced arguments and philosophical contradictions related to the idea of God, especially the benevolent, active God.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #17
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Well, the burden of proof is on you. I have reasons why I don't believe in God, but the fact is that the best of them can't disprove God, because a negative cannot logically be proven. You are the ones who have to prove there is such a thing as God. I can say "I don't believe there's a teapot floating someplace between the Earth and Mars" (to steal Bertrand Russell's example) and you can say "why?" and I can say "well, no one's ever definitively seen it, there's no compelling evidence they exist, science and logic and empirical evidence provide no support for the idea, there may be good reason and motive for man to create such a fictitious myth, etc" and you'd say "That doesn't actually PROVE the teapot doesn't exist" and I'd have to say "this is true". The same logic applies to fantasy creatures or WMDs in Iraq. Should I believe in elves, then?
    But what of this reality? Do you believe in it? Likewise, What is it's empirical evidence?
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    You're talking, I suppose, about metaphysics and epistemology from a Cartesian standpoint. It's impossible to prove reality (as we see it) exists, it's true. I assume it does (as virtually all do), because it allows me to exist and gives me reason to act. So, no, I don't definitely know the world around me exists. That's a leap of faith. God is an additional leap, one I don't see any real reason to take.

    And if we argue about whether, I don't know, some chair we can both see and feel really exists, we can and will never resolve it nor move any closer to resolving it. It'll break down to a useless argument. I guess one could argue the same about God, but that still leaves little other recourse than being a skeptic or an agnostic. As I noted before, technically I am an agnostic, I just feel God is less likely than likely for other reasons, so I call myself an atheist.

    Also, by your same reasoning (these things, the reality we see and perceive is faulty but you still believe in God anyways, I guess based on nothing real), you may as well just believe in Harry Potter just because you feel like it.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  9. #19
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    I suppose, about metaphysics and epistemology from a Cartesian standpoint.
    I should remember those terms...


    That's a leap of faith. God is an additional leap, one I don't see any real reason to take.
    What is one leap? What is another?


    Also, by your same reasoning (these things, the reality we see and perceive is faulty but you still believe in God anyways, I guess based on nothing real), you may as well just believe in Harry Potter just because you feel like it.
    Yes, possible in another dimension. I believe things aren't as constricted by rules as we now see it.
    A search for truth is a search for a greedy perspective.

    Nah, that's not truth. That's just your bullshit ideas of truth. Truth is always inclusive. If it's not inclusive, then toughen it up and try harder.

  10. #20
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I stopped believing in God shortly after I learned that Sinterklaas (The Dutch Santa Clause) was fake. I was pretty young when I came to the conclusion that faith (in religion) is a silly concept (to me).

    Growing up, dealing with religious community, friends and people though. I've learned to accept that it doesn't really matter wether you believe in God or not. If my friends wanted to believe in God, I would allow them to, and say it is their free will to do so.

    But when I saw someone believing in God and then going in against some of its teachings, my heart would ache for them. Because, should I be proven wrong once I die, it will be more likely that I am going to heaven than they would. Whilest I put no effort in having faith, whereas they get frustrated trying to maintain their faith and fall victim to their frustrations from time to time and fall to 'sin'.

    It's sad really.

    Anyways, I'm an atheist, and I have been so since I can remember. And I can't imagine having a more stress free religion, in which I can promote the goodness I possess, directly from myself, and not through an omnipotent being.



    This way of thinking is remarkable similar to Buddhism. "Shed yourself of your burdens. Religion, is a burden." Ironic, but in some cases, it has a point. Religion biases a many great deal of people, not in the way it was intended.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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