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Thread: Ti and Art

  1. #1
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Default Ti and Art

    I guess I realized I have a particular problem. I don't know what to do with art. Whether it's film, fiction, or music.

    I guess I feel that when I find something I like, I can't help but trying to pull it apart with Ti. It occured to me that this might interfere with me appreciating it fully. It seems likely to me that it could be that Ti is the function that is the worst suited to this sort of thing.

    For instance, I really like things that are pretty surrealistic. I just watched this weird movie about Bob Dylan, and I found myself to analyze the whole thing I was watching, trying to figure out what each thing was "symbolic" of, instead of just trying to watch the movie as it stood. I was trying to figure out what each part meant. (although this could be more Ne than Ti).

    Anyway, I was wondering which function is best suited for dealing with this kind of thing. Is it completely erroneous, as I'm beginning to suspect, to use Ti for such a thing?

    Might I not be better off using F, S, or N when it comes to experiencing art? I hope this makes some kind of sense.

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    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    If you watched I'm Not There then don't worry. Unless you really know Dylan. It's confusing. It's confusing regardless. So maybe that's a bad example? Dunno.

    Anyway, I think it's natural to pick apart art, music, etc. But I usually do this only after the initial experience of watching or listening to it. Usually I will like/dislike something - not know why. Then go back listen/watch again and analyze.

    Is this what you do? Or is your 1st inclination to analyze?
    ~luck favors the ready~


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    Member OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Might I not be better off using F, S, or N when it comes to experiencing art? I hope this makes some kind of sense.
    I doubt there is a right answer as to how one ingest art. As I think the meaning, message, moral, and MBTI type of the artist would dictate what ways in which they wish to connect with the viewer.

    As per movies, I have often seen interviews where movie-maker types say they have failed if you notice the construction and don’t get lost in the film.

    But a strong ‘S’ artist would want you to notice.

    Example, 70s SciFi often had long duration shots of complex spaceships. As if the artist wants to say: “We spent a lot of bucks and creative talent to make this model/shot…please, do ogle!” Whereas, Lucas being very INTPish spends millions and gives you a very short glance as the ship streaks past. As if to say: “ I want you to intuit that this is a very complex and fast-paced galaxy, and you haven’t even seen the tip of the iceberg yet!”

    Consider how and at what level would a N, S, T, and F ingest say…
    Terms of Endearment, or 2001, or a good whodunit where the physical clues are in plain sight but (for most) get lost in the sleight of hand of emotion, or action, or meaning, or even implication???

    Art is in the eye of the beholder, and what you behold is valid.
    Maybe the best way to get more is to re-watch the film and force yourself out of your own MBTI box.

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    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeee my pet hate, picking things appart that doesn't need picking apart. Sadly you are not alone...

    Most art appreciation classes do nothing but encouraging picking apart art - sometimes with the purpose of uncovering more but more often to criteque.... So your Ti is not alone by any streach but I'm sensing you yourself are loosing the pleasure through conducting this analytic process.

    Fortunately I was dragged around art galleries and the likes as a kid, before the education establishments tried to corrupt my thinking. Admittedly at the time myself and my Bro were big on findng fun stuff to do while being dragged around, so we took to renaming the works of art... You'd be surpsied how many people are inspired by "Ugly naked bird eating grapes".... So many cover versions...

    Not eveything has a rational reason, you can learn to enjoy something because it's pleasurable not because it has higher meaning. Sunrise, bird song etc...

    Maybe you need to emerge yourself in a variety of art sources in order just to find out what floats your boat... no analysis required.

    When I take friends to see art they often think they need to pick it apart in order to feel like they are experieincing something, I encourage them to say if they like it or hate it, and why if they can... and keep it that simple. All the pretensious nonsence is just that...

    PS - if it's abstract art, just moan they hung it upside down...

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    If you watched I'm Not There then don't worry. Unless you really know Dylan. It's confusing. It's confusing regardless. So maybe that's a bad example? Dunno.
    I know a bit about him, so I got some of the references, but this is really less about that particular movie and more my attitude in general.

    Anyway, I think it's natural to pick apart art, music, etc. But I usually do this only after the initial experience of watching or listening to it. Usually I will like/dislike something - not know why. Then go back listen/watch again and analyze.

    Is this what you do? Or is your 1st inclination to analyze?
    No, my first inclination is to analyze while I'm experiencing it. I can't help it. I find it very hard to just watch or listen to something unless my mind is preoccupied with something else.

    The problem with analyzing things in this way is that it inhibits your experience. The mind can only do so many things at once. If it's too busy trying to figure how something works, or why something was done, it's probably missing a lot of things. So, any analysis that does exist is likely to be off because it's based on an incomplete picture.

    I think the way you do it is probably better.... (I like the analysis, but it's a problem), but that's hard for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Not eveything has a rational reason, you can learn to enjoy something because it's pleasurable not because it has higher meaning. Sunrise, bird song etc...
    Remember, I'm a Ti dominant, so this is very hard for me to accept, though I'm speculating that this might be the case.

    When I take friends to see art they often think they need to pick it apart in order to feel like they are experieincing something, I encourage them to say if they like it or hate it, and why if they can... and keep it that simple. All the pretensious nonsence is just that...
    I think it's less pretension as it is just what I do.

  6. #6
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Glad to hear it....

    Try practicing looking at thing just for the pleausre of it - it is a skill and it can be learned with practice.

  7. #7
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    I'm Not There! One of my favorite movies! But also, I love Bob Dylan and I love Todd Haynes (the director). My Se has a field day with his creations. Analyzing movies... I primarily do this with movies that I hate, and I'm trying to pinpoint why. I may analyze the ones I love, later, but at the time I am focused on enjoying. It sounds like what you are describing, Msg, is getting caught up in your Ti, for sure- lots of judging vs perceiving.

    If a movie sucks, I will definitely get stuck in my dominant function. An indication of a good pic to me is that it gets me out of my more critical self and into the perceptual me. That's why I love good films so much- they can be transformative.

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    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Art is creativity. Ti is creative. Most art, especially the film kind. Is impressionism. Impressionism and Ti doesn't work together at all.

    It's what happens if you creatively try to understand something inheritly creative.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Art is creativity. Ti is creative. Most art, especially the film kind. Is impressionism. Impressionism and Ti doesn't work together at all.
    Why not?

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    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Because impressionism is created and has as a purpose to supply N or S. And usually aims at an emotion or feeling. Movies are the same, good movies are put together to portray emotion and feeling. Ti tends to look past that, and measures a lot of the detail. And by doing that, you ignore the impression, while watching the movie. And are much more interested in the plot, details and such. While missing the overall feeling the movie was supposed to portray.

    At least, that's what Ti does for me. I've watched movies with people that were like, omg, such an awesome movie. And I was like, but this and that and yada yada. And they're like, dude, what the heck were you paying attention to anyhow, now I need to re-watch it because I have no idea what you're talking about. And I'm like, weren't we watching the same movie?
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

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