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  1. #381
    Senior Member mlittrell's Avatar
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    i use my Te to astounding lengths for an ENFP and im sure many other ones do too

  2. #382
    ThatGirl
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    After further studying the F types.

    Feelers self claim they have mean tendencies. They are more brutal than T types if they perceive one of there standards or morals has been crossed. They are more likely to retaliate with vengeful actions in order to even emotional scores. And, still give me the creeps.

  3. #383
    heart on fire
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    My observation is that T types claim to have control over their emotions but when their feelings become hurt they are less likely to listen to apology and more likely to act out long term and to hold deeper grudges. They appear to have little control over their emotions and feelings except of course to cover them in logical sounding language while still acting out the dictates of their feeling shadows. Almost like they are disassociated from their feelings even while being slave to them. Yeah, I find that more frightening to deal with than a feeler who knows and admits to their feelings. It's all a matter of perspective.

    There are no angelic human beings. All types capable of meanness and vengence.

  4. #384
    ThatGirl
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    There is a difference between a grudge and retaliation.





    *I am currently listening to F types talking about how fun killing sprees would be in virtual reality. Hm

  5. #385
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    There is a difference between a grudge and retaliation.
    Grudges that cause long term communication problems and an unwilliness to listen to apologies or reason in relation to the problem that caused their hurt feelings is the biggest problem with Thinkers. I never said they weren't also capable of vengence. That's something you've decided on. I see no difference between Thinkers and Feelers as regards vengence, only in the way it may be enacted. Thinkers do find it easier to distance themselves from their feelings as far as conscious thought goes while still being driven and motivated to hold a grudge or seek venegence.

  6. #386
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Heart, maybe you are right to a certain degree but with many thinkers, we tend to get that way over problems that are larger than average for a feeler type. It's rare that I get that upset, but when I do, something truly shocking has to happen. At that point, I am able to walk away and there is no reason to hear excuses because my mind is made up. But I am not necessarily holding a grudge, I just don't want to be bothered.

  7. #387
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    My observation is that T types claim to have control over their emotions but when their feelings become hurt they are less likely to listen to apology and more likely to act out long term and to hold deeper grudges. They appear to have little control over their emotions and feelings except of course to cover them in logical sounding language while still acting out the dictates of their feeling shadows. Almost like they are disassociated from their feelings even while being slave to them. Yeah, I find that more frightening to deal with than a feeler who knows and admits to their feelings. It's all a matter of perspective.

    There are no angelic human beings. All types capable of meanness and vengence.
    Fair enough, but the corollary is clearly also true about Fi-iers from a Ti standpoint.

    Just as Ti can't release Critical Thinking 101 as the basis for evaluation of everything, Fi is similarly in denial about the possibility that any of its moral precepts might not be objectively certain, which is especially ironic in the case of NFPs because they pride themselves on their very ability to understand and appreciate other viewpoints. What I see from the outside is Fi getting upset at some perceived moral injustice and then using Ne to imagine a million more reasons to hate the offender even more, instead of trying to think of other ways to consider his perspective that might help explain.

    A perfect case in point is the NFP-riddled raging political left. They often practice intolerance in the name of squelching intolerance ("You're not a SOCIALIST?! Moron!" comes to mind), and something about that doesn't sit right with me.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #388
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Grudges that cause long term communication problems and an unwilliness to listen to apologies or reason in relation to the problem that caused their hurt feelings is the biggest problem with Thinkers. I never said they weren't also capable of vengence. That's something you've decided on. I see no difference between Thinkers and Feelers as regards vengence, only in the way it may be enacted. Thinkers do find it easier to distance themselves from their feelings as far as conscious thought goes while still being driven and motivated to hold a grudge or seek venegence.
    In regards to the first, I have not witnessed this. Usually, if one is unwilling to reason, it is because there is no reasoning. The problem is irrelevant to the overall goal, thus being discarded rather than worked out. This may be a perception difference between T and F.


    In regards to the latter, the entire sentence is contradictory. The bolded part will naturally lead to less frequent acts of retaliation or the perceived need for such acts.

  9. #389
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ As for the 2nd above bolded sentence that Heart wrote, Fi always thinks Ti is motivated by an undercurrent of poor command of emotion, just as Ti thinks Fi is motivated by one of poor command of impersonal logic.

    Ti and Fi are the same damn thing and neither realizes it.


    EDIT: By the way, Heart's insistence here that an Fi undercurrent is governing everything Ts do is similar to what I used to do to Victor all the time before I understood how Fi works. These days I'm of the opinion Victor is an INFP after all, and it was a mistake for me to continually hold him to Ti standards as if he had any interest whatsoever in operating from a Thinking frame of reference.

    If I wanted to be lame about it, I could prattle on about how he's clearly in denial about his total inability to command Ti in any reasonable way, but I'd be missing the point because he isn't even trying to orient by Ti. He's just not operating within the realm of impersonal reasoning and my criticisms of him in these cases were largely results of mistaken context, given that he openly admitted holding himself to no logical standard.

    And that's precisely the mistake you make, Heart, when you continue to conceptualize Ts as emotionally stunted children who really want to be open and use emotion as their primary language, but just don't know how and need a little extra help! You're holding us to standards in Fi usage that we see as neither realistic nor desirable, and that doesn't make us lesser people.

    In actuality, no, we aren't children in need of your Fi therapy; we're just speaking a different language which is inherently neither superior nor inferior to yours--and rest assured, we care just as much about learning to use feeling-based reasoning as you do about learning to use impersonal reasoning...no more, and no less.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #390
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Fair enough, but the corollary is clearly also true about Fi-iers from a Ti standpoint.

    Just as Ti can't release Critical Thinking 101 as the basis for evaluation of everything, Fi is similarly in denial about the possibility that any of its moral precepts might not be objectively certain, which is especially ironic in the case of NFPs because they pride themselves on their very ability to understand and appreciate other viewpoints. What I see from the outside is Fi getting upset at some perceived moral injustice and then using Ne to imagine a million more reasons to hate the offender even more, instead of trying to think of other ways to consider his perspective that might help explain.

    A perfect case in point is the NFP-riddled raging political left. They often practice intolerance in the name of squelching intolerance ("You're not a SOCIALIST?! Moron!" comes to mind), and something about that doesn't sit right with me.
    In the part you quoted, I already said there are no angelic human beings. I never claimed Fi or Feelers didn't have their faults. I was merely pointing out that I've had just as much to-do over bruised feelings from thinkers (especially female thinkers) in my life and they are often harder for me to deal with and they seem almost disassociated from their feelings, as if their own feelings are big mystery to them that haunts them but cannot be seen. That's the best way I know to put it into words.

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    EDIT: By the way, Heart's insistence here that an Fi undercurrent is governing everything Ts do is similar to what I used to do to Victor all the time before I understood how Fi works.
    I never said that Fi governs "EVERYTHING" that thinkers do. You're seeing things.

    My exact words were that when a thinker (especially a female one) has their feelings hurt, they seem to be almost disassociated from them yet haunted by them. Now that's not saying that thinkers are always governed by Fi or Fe, is it? Well, is it?

    And that's precisely the mistake you make, Heart, when you continue to conceptualize Ts as emotionally stunted children who really want to be open and use emotion as their primary language, but just don't know how and need a little extra help!
    Never did I say this either. I have absolutely no idea what a thinker *wants* to do with their emotional self---but I certainly don't think they want to use emotion as their "primary language". I only know how it has been when I've had to deal with a thinker in a close, personal situation when their back was up. I am not looking to play nanny to any thinkers either.

    You're holding us to standards in Fi usage that we see as neither realistic nor desirable, and that doesn't make us lesser people.
    Where the hell are you getting this from? I believe I said that both thinkers and feelers have their faults when it comes to dealing with hurt feelings, they are just expressed differently.

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