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Thread: INFJ vs ISFJ

  1. #1
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    Default INFJ vs ISFJ

    It seems there's a decent amount of overlap between INFJs and ISFJs. I stumbled across some ISFJ posts today, which spurred me to look into things a bit further, and while the descriptions for INFJ have always really leaped off the page for me, there are some Si ISFJ characteristic that I think I might recognize in myself as well.

    I know the bulk of it is Ni vs Si, but the more I read, the more I am doubting my grasp of a few of functions, Ni being one of them. The idea of Ni being convergent vs Ne being divergent is a bit confusing to me. I get the concepts of convergence and divergence, but am looking for more examples to make it stick.

    So, in your experience or theory, what are the real dividing characteristics between these two types?
    Last edited by anti-villain; 05-25-2013 at 09:08 AM.

  2. #2
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    Don't look for divergence in either case. However divergence in the Ne case is ideas leading from ideas and the user soon finds them in a very different place idea or theory wise from where they started and may not have any memory of how they arrived there. In the end the box has split open and there is much more to consider than what was contained in the initial question or idea but what they are considering are the previously unrealised dimensions of the problem. Eventually the Ne web of connections would (in theory) cover the entire universe.

    As for Ni (I believe my understanding is sound enough to respond):

    Ni is convergent in the respect that all the possibilities eventually fuse into a single possibility which would be (the Ni believes) the correct one due to multiple ways of perceiving it. Note that Ni is not always correct as it is aloof from outside reality (the more incoming data the more possibilities would have to be considered and ruled out.)

    Si is convergent in the respect that all the possibilities eventually fuse into a single possibility which would be (the Si believes) the correct one due to multiple past instances of the same incident. Note that Si is not always correct as it is aloof from outside reality (what is recalled and used as reference is romanticized and subjective to the individual and thus understanding of what was may be compromised by nostalgia.)

    The two are very different at their core. The individual themselves would be the one who would have to determine which one they are.

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    I find ISFJ's to be significantly more lighthearted and have a touch of ENTP eccentricity. Meanwhile INFJ's have a little bit of ESTP flavor and are significantly more emotionally dramatic.

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    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    Ni comprises of synthesizing the universe + time.

    Si comprises of considering culture + past experiences.

    Ni looks to transcend and predict.

    Si looks to conform and settle.

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    I identify a lot with ISFJs. My mom is one and most of the time I know where she is coming from, even when I don't agree with her.

    I don't think I know enough to try to explain the difference between Ni and Si. Si feels like a library to me, while Ni feels like running around chasing a phantom until finally you can grab it by its tail and then everything makes sense...
    4w5 sp/sx EII

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    ISFJ's nurture from the background....like an incredibly annoying moth trying to get attention from a flame. Sometimes though it does seem like they actually have personalities of their own, so it isn't all bad.

    INFJ's are usually secret conspiracy theorists, who love to spend time telling others how they are feeling and what is the best way to think. It's what I call 'soft-fascism' in that it doesn't appear to be fascism until it's too late. Their hobbies usually include; poems, philosophy, genocide and counselling when no one asked for it. Allegedly one of the rarest types and rightfully so.

    We don't need more of that!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
    Likes Chrysanthe liked this post

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    Junior Member Castameare's Avatar
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    well biggest difference one is Ni leading, the other Si leading
    one has Se inferior, the other Ne inferior
    so their perceptions functions are very different
    one is leading with an introverted Intuition perspective the other one with an introverted Sensation perspective.

    Ni – Se synthesizes the sensory data to one right meaning, so in INFJ/INTJ’s world meaning and idea is implemented in their immediate environment and reality. The whole environment is just a perception of one’s impression from it. their perception goes from from broad to narrow

    Si – Ne creates possibilities from concrete sensory experience, so in ISFJ/ISTJ’s world, sensory details are implemented in their ideas and impressions of reality. They have a starting point from where they can derive ideas and build new possibilities from, so metaphorically speaking their perception goes from from narrow to broad

    Ni:
    emphasis on the bigger picture, first i have to see the bigger meaning , the idea, system behind it, and from that on i can shape and shift the perspective and the sensory details to achieve it.

    Healthy: introspective, adding meaning to the world and life, coming with new perspecties, shifting and forming one’s reality.

    Unhealthy: overanalyzing unimportant little sensory details, getting so lost with interpreting and meaning that they don’t see that they are misled and out of touch with reality -> paranoia, overananlyzing ones own subjective view, fail to take the data at face value, seeing so many different perspectives to the extent of being totally absent from the here and now and therefore miss important new facts. (living in your head attitude)

    Si:
    Emphasis on your own reality, on the sensory, first i have to drink in the sensory details and facts, before i put them in the right order so that they build a bigger picture for me.

    Healthy: creating pragamtic realistic approaches how to achieve maintain the bigger idea, anchored within the real world and helping to add the necessary stability and long livety to the one right idea. they want to implement the sensory facts to an abstract Idea.

    Unhealthy
    : Getting lost and clinging at owns own subjective sensory view on experiences, static incapable of shifting ones interpretation of reality and the sensory facts and therefore block new ideas.

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    Junior Member Castameare's Avatar
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    I found Beebe's Model quite helpful to discern these two perspectives (Ni,Si) for me, because from the outside they can really look alike.

    INFERIOR:
    ISxJ's (Inferior Ne) might feel inferior in new possibilities.
    INxJ's (Inferior Se) might feel inferior with current sensory experience.

    How we project it onto others:

    ISxJ's Cling to dominant perspective. Criticize NP's as irresponsible
    INxJ's Cling to dominant perspective. Probably see SP's as inferior

    Shadow Ne or Se
    SxJ's (Shadow Se) Stubborn about going with the flow of a single impulse or having an accurate read on the current situation.
    INxJ's (Shadow Ne) Stubborn about responding to emerging information

    How we project it onto others:

    ISxJ's Think that living in the moment is irresponsible. (However, some who do it are sexy).
    INxJ's Probably think that multiple possibilities are absurd. The patterns point to one right conclusion.

    DEMON:

    ISxJ's (Demon Ni) deep abstract meaning is an area of the unknown and runs totally counter to the concrete structure needed
    INxJ's (Demon Si)The past is highly irrelevent, and likely haunting

    How we project it onto others:

    ISxJ's see abstract frameworks as crazy, yet use them under stress in an overblown fashion ("dire predictions with detailed certainty")
    INxJ's "When really stressed, they may waste time reviewing the impact of the past."(Berens) (Likely aimed at someone else in a conflict)

    Source (it might be very long, but i found this to be very true for myself and how my functions actually really work for me)

  9. #9
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castameare View Post
    Source (it might be very long, but i found this to be very true for myself and how my functions actually really work for me)
    Well, if it works for you.....that makes it all ok!
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Castameare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Well, if it works for you.....that makes it all ok!
    what do you mean?

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