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  1. #31
    Senior Member Griffi97's Avatar
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    My grandfather was an INTJ. He was probably my only close family member who really understood me, and was one of my best friends until he died when I was 19.

    I had a very close INTJ friend for about 8 years, but we would occasionally disagree and finally she wrote me off as a friend. I have tried to make up with her, but she will have none of it.

    I think the whole shared Ni thing can be both a bond and a challenge in relationships between INFJ's and INTJ's.
    If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put the foundations under them.
    -Henry David Thoreau

  2. #32
    Senior Member Leysing's Avatar
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    I like the rationality of well developed INTJs.

    But I know this INTJ who considers himself a Higher Being and even says it himself. He says that other people are so stupid that they don't understand his genius. Well, he is clearly very intelligent, but other people just can't stand his company and start defending themselves against his abrasive, aggressive behavior. He tries to force others to adapt to him. He has NO idea of social rules, NO willingness to even try to be socially appropriate, and he demands others to tolerate his behavior because of his intelligence.

    We don't get along very well

  3. #33
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leysing View Post
    I like the rationality of well developed INTJs.

    But I know this INTJ who considers himself a Higher Being and even says it himself. He says that other people are so stupid that they don't understand his genius. Well, he is clearly very intelligent, but other people just can't stand his company and start defending themselves against his abrasive, aggressive behavior. He tries to force others to adapt to him. He has NO idea of social rules, NO willingness to even try to be socially appropriate, and he demands others to tolerate his behavior because of his intelligence.

    We don't get along very well
    People can easily seem really stupid even to me, but I care about them enough to feel guilty when I become aware of offending them (even if they were only offended because they didn't understand what I meant). I'm tempted by that kind of thinking myself at times, but I'm too aware of my own flaws for the idea to get very far. INTJ's do seem to be slightly better at idealizing themselves for some reason... perhaps because their intellect is even stronger, they make fewer mistakes, and the disparity between themselves and other people is even greater?

    Still, I can understand well enough to pity an INTJ who falls into that trap. It's a lie (albeit a very comforting and understandable one at times) to think other people don't matter just because they're less intelligent and have weaker wills/endurance.

    But I would say that most INTJ's are not like that. They're a bit distant and cold, but they usually do hurt for others on some level, and have a soft spot. They're also usually less confident than to think they're better than other people, and know the dangers of underestimating other people's value or potential threat to themselves.

  4. #34
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    People can easily seem really stupid even to me, but I care about them enough to feel guilty when I become aware of offending them (even if they were only offended because they didn't understand what I meant). I'm tempted by that kind of thinking myself at times, but I'm too aware of my own flaws for the idea to get very far. INTJ's do seem to be slightly better at idealizing themselves for some reason... perhaps because their intellect is even stronger, they make fewer mistakes, and the disparity between themselves and other people is even greater?

    But I would say that most INTJ's are not like that. They're a bit distant and cold, but they usually do hurt for others on some level, and have a soft spot. They're also usually less confident than to think they're better than other people, and know the dangers of underestimating other people's value or potential threat to themselves.
    I think I sometimes give the 'better than you' vibe when I don't mean to. I kind of snapped out of it for real when I was about twelve.

    The problem, I think, is that INTJs usually have a disconnect of what they think and what is actually shown to the real world. (Just to look at functions for a moment, we have Ni and underdeveloped Fi mainly expressed through Te -- COME ON. I mean really!) There are thoughts and feelings always there but if they're not considered useful they go unexpressed. So, that's a LOT, usually hidden by a blank or angry face that people can project anything onto. And when people go and assume things, it's not as if you can refuse it because the refusal just 'proves' it by some warped logic that the INTJ can't grasp.

    Or something like that.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #35

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    ^^^
    hmm...from reading this I'd say my brother is more INTP...nevermind my reply.
    Introverted (I) 57.14% Extroverted (E) 42.86%
    Intuitive (N) 66.67% Sensing (S) 33.33%
    Feeling (F) 61.54% Thinking (T) 38.46%
    Judging (J) 51.22% Perceiving (P) 48.78%

    Your type is: INFJ

  6. #36
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Flower View Post
    ^^^
    hmm...from reading this I'd say my brother is more INTP...nevermind my reply.
    This is just speaking from personal experience -- which may be entirely inaccurate. I don't think I know any INTJs IRL. Maybe a couple INTPs, but no INTJs.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #37
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The problem, I think, is that INTJs usually have a disconnect of what they think and what is actually shown to the real world. (Just to look at functions for a moment, we have Ni and underdeveloped Fi mainly expressed through Te -- COME ON. I mean really!) There are thoughts and feelings always there but if they're not considered useful they go unexpressed. So, that's a LOT, usually hidden by a blank or angry face that people can project anything onto.
    So you think the Ni-Fi axis contributes to INTJ's idealizing themselves and thinking they're "good enough" when they're not? As an INFJ, I think I tend to be most conscious of how I want to be, and exactly how and where I fall short.

    And when people go and assume things, it's not as if you can refuse it because the refusal just 'proves' it by some warped logic that the INTJ can't grasp.
    It's the idea of people being "in denial" about traits they wouldn't want to attribute to themselves, or are not consciously aware of. So the more strongly you protest, the more people think you must be protesting due to your denial. They aren't aware that you genuinely know that it isn't there. FJ's (well, at least myself) can tend to rely on other people to reflect their emotions back at them (as if the other person were a mirror) to get a clearer idea of their own feelings. Can't just feel them totally from within in detail without some kind of stimulation or a symbol.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    With their eyes!

    *rimshot*

  9. #39
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    So you think the Ni-Fi axis contributes to INTJ's idealizing themselves and thinking they're "good enough" when they're not? As an INFJ, I think I tend to be most conscious of how I want to be, and exactly how and where I fall short.
    Nevermind what I said before -- I think I know what you're talking about now (it took me a while, but think I got it)

    The issue is that INTJs believe they are malleable. It may have been a satirical remark that "INTJs see life as a problem to be solved," but it's true. Even the healthy ones, what they tend to believe is that they're up to a challenge, that they see two things react (themselves against custom), they don't see themselves as flawed, what they see is simply breakdown, and that something's got to give. Once you've got an INTJ believing that they're inherently flawed then you've probably got a pretty depressed INTJ on your hands.

    There may be problems with behavior, there may be problems with appearances, with paying attention, with being considerate, but they tend to believe themselves as more than the sum of their behaviors and impressions. Behaviors can change, but the spirit of the person remains the same.

    It's sort of like when the vocalist begins criticizing the quality of their instrument. The instrtument -- the voice -- is a part of themselves, so to believe the instrument is bad beyond use is to quit. However, to believe that the instrument can be honed to be good is to continue on, even if you're breaking mirrors while you train your voice.

    It's the idea of people being "in denial" about traits they wouldn't want to attribute to themselves, or are not consciously aware of. So the more strongly you protest, the more people think you must be protesting due to your denial. They aren't aware that you genuinely know that it isn't there. FJ's (well, at least myself) can tend to rely on other people to reflect their emotions back at them (as if the other person were a mirror) to get a clearer idea of their own feelings. Can't just feel them totally from within in detail without some kind of stimulation or a symbol.
    Oh yes. Denial. For some reason, I'm always, always in denial.

    I always figured that if what I'm feeling is that important, I'd figure it out eventually.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #40
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    With their eyes!

    *rimshot*
    I was going to say with one of these.
    I don't wanna!

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