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  1. #1
    Junior Member PsychedelicPlatypus's Avatar
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    Default INFJ problems with Ne?

    As a function, I like extroverted intuition. I suppose having dominant Ni inspires me to love intuition in general--however I've noticed that people with a lot of Ne going on tend to bother me. While I love the more low-key users of Ne (INTP, INFP, etc.), dominant Ne users (ENTP, ENFP) seem to, er, be sort of hit-or-miss with it. More specifically, I find them to be susceptible of using their Ne in manipulative or deceitful ways--seeming to constantly and intuitively grab details from their surroundings, and connect things in a way that tend to justify (or inspire) their lies and attempts to manipulate rules and such to their advantage or view point.

    *To be fair, the ENTPs and ENFPs I've known have been kind of immature, with their own inner demons to deal with. I'm not trying to generalize all people of these types, and I suppose a better title for this thread could be "When Ne goes bad" lol.

    Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this or has anything to contribute

  2. #2
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    I've known of one ENFP to have that manipulative way to them. But I know several other ENFP's that aren't this way as well. I don't know about ENTP's that are this way... with the ENFP, I always felt it had more to do with insecure Fi.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  3. #3
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    I think that ENFPs don't necessarily let themselves be bridled by the facts of a situation. Now this doesn't mean they ignore the facts, just that they focus more on the "big picture" or painting with a "wide brush."

    I would say that the OP's observations about Ne are tied to the foibles of a few individuals and that these "problems" with Ne are not inherent to Ne itself, but more inherent to immature, deceitful, and manipulative people.

    At its best, Ne can see connections that others do not. What one does with those connections is up to the individual's personal agenda and ethical maturity. Most of the ENFPs I've known have a highly developed ethical sensibility and would not knowingly try to manipulate or deceive others.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychedelicPlatypus View Post
    I suppose a better title for this thread could be "When Ne goes bad" lol.
    There's a good idea for a new thread.

  5. #5
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychedelicPlatypus View Post
    As a function, I like extroverted intuition. I suppose having dominant Ni inspires me to love intuition in general--however I've noticed that people with a lot of Ne going on tend to bother me. While I love the more low-key users of Ne (INTP, INFP, etc.), dominant Ne users (ENTP, ENFP) seem to, er, be sort of hit-or-miss with it. More specifically, I find them to be susceptible of using their Ne in manipulative or deceitful ways--seeming to constantly and intuitively grab details from their surroundings, and connect things in a way that tend to justify (or inspire) their lies and attempts to manipulate rules and such to their advantage or view point.

    *To be fair, the ENTPs and ENFPs I've known have been kind of immature, with their own inner demons to deal with. I'm not trying to generalize all people of these types, and I suppose a better title for this thread could be "When Ne goes bad" lol.

    Just wondering if anyone else has thought about this or has anything to contribute
    There is a button called [preview].

  6. #6
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Well it's true, I have gotten out of the one or other situation by manipulating. I like to call it being clever and my gf (infp) doesnt like it. I've been part of circles of humans which were apart from legality and I dont think this was only because I looked so good.

    Yet and thats the thing my girlfriend told me she choosed me for, I seem to have a great sense of morality. Tho I generally do not care as much about others, I always tried for all my life to respect everyone and to share with everyone. Maybe this is what happens when you grow up in socialism. I despise the capitalistic idea of "who comes first is served first" and I never in all my life betrayed anyone. I like the idea of a fair challenge and a competition you win with your productivity, hard work, knowledge and good ideas; when I had the option to cut shortcuts in the past on the cost of others, I never took them.

    You know I have done much harm to myself in life. Met the wrong people, smoked the wrong weed, am nearly 30 and still not rich yet, but there will be one thing I'll be proud of at my end of my life and that is that I never fucked with anyone. I believe in things like pride, temptation and loyality and I am still one of the kind who run into a suicide mission for some invisible greater purpose. I doubt many of these ideals with my rationality, still it has never been a problem for me to follow them. I criticize them in a humorous attitude and then I do what feels right.

    I'll prolly earn the windbag award for this post, so here's a final platitude: I, on the other side, do trust nobody, even not my own ass. He shits on me twice a day
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #7
    Junior Member PsychedelicPlatypus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments guys!

    Esoteric Wench: Thanks for the insight! Like I said, I imagine that the people I've seen this in ARE immature...the only ENFP male I've known well lied constantly, and about things that were so obvious I've been seeing a lot of ENFP males on forums talking about being interested in INFJ females, and it makes me wonder just how different from the norm the guy I knew really was. It sounds like emotionally healthy ENFPs are pretty awesome

    phobik: Thanks, I'm still sort of a newb

    entropie: Actually, I was very interested in reading your post because the ENTP I've known the best and have had the most issues with is sort of the opposite of how you describe yourself. The few times she did seem to "care" about me or try to give me advice there was always some hidden motive behind her behavior that would come out afterwards. So in short, nothing but manipulation. I lost a lot of respect for her. She seemed to be able to betray people and not even bat an eye.

    In general, the biggest problem I've had with both individuals is their "I don't give a fuck" attitude, and my inability to just "go with it" when the negative consequences of their behavior come out, which is why I have stopped associating with them. I realize that they are not the best examples of either type, and not the most ethical individuals either. I was just curious if, since both prefer dominant Ne, perhaps there was a connection....

  8. #8
    Junior Member PsychedelicPlatypus's Avatar
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    IndyAnnaJoan: I've wondered if perhaps immature Fi was the reason for the ENFP's behavior, but with the similarities between him and the ENTP, I was wondering if perhaps immature Ne could be the culprit as well...I definitely see what you're saying though

  9. #9
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    After you've taken the time to learn MBTI model and jung functions and even other models you can begin taking it all, plus social and your own perceptions and stereotyping with a grain of salt and learn how to integrate it with each individual's personal context, upbringing, etc.

  10. #10
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I like to call it being clever and my gf (infp) doesnt like it.
    I thought your gf was INFJ? She seems to morph back and forth from INFP to INFJ, depending on the thread topic. Or am I just not catching onto the fact that you have 2 girlfriends ?

    ------

    In regards to the OP, I too have witnessed Ne-doms masterfully wiggle out of corners using "creative reasoning" to justify certain actions or statements when they've realized they've backed themselves into that corner. It can be impossible to argue with one who refuses to back down, because they become increasingly irrational, and the ones who are good at it will take others along down their faulty path of reasoning. They just start creating lines of reasoning without any regard to what is real, valid or even relevant to the original topic, just so as to avoid backtracking or admitting a wrong turn. I always get this mental image of some cartoon character backed against a brick wall in a chase, and then they draw a door on it, and suddenly it is real & they open it and run down a corridor that did not exist before. Ne-doms draw these doors all over the place - and it's like, "Where the hell did that come from?! You can't do that!!".

    It's kind of a "hand is quicker than the eye" thing, only here the Ne is quicker than the ear, so if you aren't following their argument very carefully, it might seem something close to logic. It fools many and frustrates those who see through it.

    But rest assured, INPs are capable of this also . It's definitely an immaturity thing, or when one has a moment of being childish (which even generally mature people will have at times).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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