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View Poll Results: Do ENFP’s Lead People On?

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  • I think ENFPs often lead people on, but they aren’t usually aware of it.

    17 39.53%
  • I think ENFPs often lead people on, and they usually know exactly what they are doing.

    6 13.95%
  • I think ENFPs often lead people on, and I’m unsure if they are aware of this or not.

    16 37.21%
  • I don’t think ENFPs often lead people on.

    4 9.30%
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  1. #111
    Senior Member Rex's Avatar
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    Usually when someone are happy doing something wrong. they then make up all the excuses to keep doing it.. Usually..

    Seen it before and i will see it again...

    We all do it more or less.. i guess..

  2. #112
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    Not saying it's never innocent, but at the same time, sometimes, it's unequivocally full of intent.
    Yes, but intent to do what?

    I think some people get a taste for the power they feel when manipulating the sexual interest/emotions of others. They get a kick out of it.
    Yes, the interaction part is fun.

    And they use it to their advantage.
    No advantage, per se. It's more like "Love Potion Number 9"
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0eTK6JHmno"]They don't want THAT much attention ...[/YOUTUBE]

    Then they rationalize it /deny it by saying they are just universally friendly, that they are misunderstood, or whatever. They'd have to be incredibly interpersonally dense not to understand what they are doing. Like, beyond INTJ levels of denseness. I don't buy it.
    No, for the most part, they really don't understand what they're doing in terms of affecting/teasing others, especially when younger. They get that people react to them, often oddly, but the cause/effect is not particularly evident.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  3. #113
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ yeah, pretty much everything uumlau said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    Not saying it's never innocent, but at the same time, sometimes, it's unequivocally full of intent. I think some people get a taste for the power they feel when manipulating the sexual interest/emotions of others. They get a kick out of it. And they use it to their advantage. Then they rationalize it /deny it by saying they are just universally friendly, that they are misunderstood, or whatever. They'd have to be incredibly interpersonally dense not to understand what they are doing. Like, beyond INTJ levels of denseness. I don't buy it.
    well, yes and no. i think you're right in some ways, but not quite on target with the reasons.

    if you look at this:

    Quote Originally Posted by LeafAndSky View Post
    People think I find them special. No, it's just that I find everyone special.

    How seldom many people seem to have the opportunity to feel valued by another. And I usually value all aspects, including personality, interests, viewpoint, gender. That results in people, during our first conversation, doing things like telling me something they "have never told anyone, not in two decades." Or getting interested in an intimate relationship.

    I'm not leading people on, at least in my own mind. It's actually a human-to-human, deepest-level respect that's offered.
    it becomes easier to understand why this sort of behavior is our baseline. i totally, completely agree with what leafandsky wrote. people say they feel comfortable around me, and that makes me happy. the personal "kick" i get comes from a sense of being able to empower others, not because i can use others .people do the same things around me - spill their life stories, deep hurts, secret wishes, etc. and i respect them. i don't ask others to tell me these things, but often people do. i don't want to make them to do anything for me; generally, i just want them to be happy, whole people. i like being "in" with them, yes, but again, that's not a future promise, just a pleasing sense of being close to someone. there's no other agenda in my interactions usually than making us both feel good. there's no "let's keep this person on a string", nothing like that. even as much of a planner as i am when it comes to my day or month or trips, personal interaction is all about the present.

    and i'm no angel, of course. the way i manipulate is more like this: i haven't turned in a report. i want to get out of being in trouble for not doing so. i go to my boss, talk with her for a while, empathize (naturally - no falsity there) with her about whatever's going on in her life... then kinda distract her... then mention some reasons why i am late... then she lets me off the hook. it's more about getting someone to like me than it is about their specific behavior, if that makes sense. it's very in-the-moment, again, much the same as what i was talking about with leafandsky's comment.

    i also don't really like sexual manipulation, at all. maybe that's a personal thing, but i find the idea that someone would do things for me because they think i have sexual intentions kind of repelling. i don't want anyone to base their actions on something i may or may not do (i'm a P, after all, there's no telling!) i hate the idea that someone thinks i've promised them something, because i hate being locked into things. i'd much rather have no relationship with that person than an expectation like that. but if you look at, for instance, NTJ-NFP banter on the forums, it's often sexually charged, but i'm pretty sure it's understood on both sides that there's no explicit expectations of follow-through. and that is pleasing to me, and i assume also to them. but once more, very in-the-moment. maybe if both people chose to follow up, there would be some kind of relationship, but equally both people could just leave the conversation feeling self-confident and sexy and mainly amused. i feel like that's how it goes IRL, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salome
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    Fi is intrapersonal mastery, but not interpersonal, and flirting is an interpersonal communication.
    Can you explain this further?
    yeah. so flirting has to do with the messages you send between people - interpersonal communication. an understanding of flirting entails being able to assess "direction" on both parties' parts - not just how they feel, but what they tend to do about it. in general, i think that FJs have a much better perception of behavior than FPs do - after all, Fe is extraverted, and behavior around other people is an external, Feeling-domain issue. it occurs in the space "between" people. FPs, however, are much better at intrapersonal issues - completely within a person. that includes aspirations, emotions, ambitions, self-confidence. all internal people-issues. obviously our training grounds is within ourselves - hence blabbing about ourselves so often - but as we learn more about the Fi facets of our selves, we can use that knowledge to understand the Fi facets of others as well. it's not projecting onto others - though that can accidentally happen, certainly - so much as "knowing the ropes". every ship is a bit different, but once you understand general placement and connections, you have a decent idea of the rigging.

    apply that to personal romantic interactions, though, and what you get with an FP is someone who's quite good at understanding what the other person feels internally, but not what the other person really thinks about those feelings (because some people, Ti dom/aux especially, often choose to ignore them), or what they're going to do about them. someone who is not good at deciphering messages in the space "between" people. so while we might be great at cheering another person up, and making them feel warm and fuzzy inside because we have a good idea of how to manipulate the Fi rigging - their feelings about themselves, generally - we don't really have any idea of how to steer the boats, to extend the slightly ridiculous nautical metaphor. sure, i can get the mast up, but i don't know if the boat is going in my direction...



    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau
    but the cause/effect is not particularly evident.
    yeah. we suck at identifying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    i really agree with this. have we ever definitively nailed down what ENFPs do when sincerely interested in someone? i.e., behavioral patterns that reflect genuine, self-aware romantic interest?

    related: like many IxTxs, i think ENFPs also pull away to assess at times. i'd be really interested in understanding how ENFPs work that out in their heads, as i imagine it's not unlike a short circuit event. i think this is one of our biggest failings, that we are mysteries unto ourselves at times. at least, i am.
    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    i've decided that anyone interested in an ENFP* (particularly the female varietal) should wait until they get quiet, reflective, deep on them. i suspect that is the moment where we transition from our externalizing behavior to our inner core, and is probably a fairly good time to hit on us. why not be direct with someone already in a vulnerable state?
    agreed on both counts. when i like someone i get hesitant, unsure, hyperaware of them and myself. i overanalyze with Fi. i guess the quiet comes from that overanalysis.

  4. #114
    Unlimited Dancemoves ® AgentF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    sure, i can get the mast up, but i don't know if the boat is going in my direction...
    LOL (and true) in more ways than one.
    I may be kindly, I am ordinarily gentle, but in my line of business I am obliged to will terribly what I will at all.
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  5. #115
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Yes, but intent to do what?
    See thread title.

    No advantage, per se. It's more like "Love Potion Number 9"
    Ummm. No not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i also don't really like sexual manipulation, at all. maybe that's a personal thing, but i find the idea that someone would do things for me because they think i have sexual intentions kind of repelling. i don't want anyone to base their actions on something i may or may not do (i'm a P, after all, there's no telling!) i hate the idea that someone thinks i've promised them something, because i hate being locked into things. i'd much rather have no relationship with that person than an expectation like that. but if you look at, for instance, NTJ-NFP banter on the forums, it's often sexually charged, but i'm pretty sure it's understood on both sides that there's no explicit expectations of follow-through. and that is pleasing to me, and i assume also to them. but once more, very in-the-moment. maybe if both people chose to follow up, there would be some kind of relationship, but equally both people could just leave the conversation feeling self-confident and sexy and mainly amused. i feel like that's how it goes IRL, too.
    I think if this is one of your values, then you're unlikely to engage in the kind of behaviour we're talking about. If it's not, you will. And not all ENFPs have great personal ethics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentfurrina View Post
    LOL (and true) in more ways than one.
    Quite, I can feel with ENFPs that if they feel comfortable and right at the time they will make decisions based upon the current context without a lot of information. For me, I'll sit and observe for a while before I'll do anything to avoid the heart moving in a way that the mind hasn't made the decision; this includes reigning in any potential excitement until I am sure. ENFPs (possibly) need to feel the rush of excitement now and don't want to wait for something that seems natural and content to them. On occasion this can lead to pushing something into a very personal space with another person that can lead to miscommunication and the other person seeing more than the ENFP thought there was.

    I don't think it's leading on, but I'm not sure it's responsible though and I guess it takes experience for an ENFP to get attuned to how others perceive that.

  7. #117
    I drink your milkshake. Thessaly's Avatar
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    The ENFPs I know don't lead people on. They'll flirt with most moving, breathing beings, but when it comes to anything further than that they're quite honest about their intentions.
    With dreamers, pure and simple, the imagination remains a vaguely sketched inner affair. It is not embodied in any aesthetic or practical invention. Reverie is the equivalent of weak desires. Dreamers are the aboulics of the creative imagination.

  8. #118
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    I think if this is one of your values, then you're unlikely to engage in the kind of behaviour we're talking about. If it's not, you will. And not all ENFPs have great personal ethics.
    true, but i think my point that most ENFPs aren't going to engage someone with the main intent to sexually manipulate still stands.

    maybe they'll end up "leading someone on", and maybe on the spot they'll realize that they're in a useful position to be able to get something they want by playing up the sexual tension, but i have a hard time seeing any NFP act mainly based on that motivation. not because we're such good people - just because we don't behave in a relationship-goal-oriented way when it comes to people. which is really dunderheaded sometimes - i mean honestly, NFPs are sometimes really socially awkward.

    hm, actually, i wonder if that's what fucks with our behavior when we fall for someone - why we get all introverted. suddenly we have a goal (of making them want us)... we have to go digging in our backstock for some Te or Fe


    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
    I don't think it's leading on, but I'm not sure it's responsible though and I guess it takes experience for an ENFP to get attuned to how others perceive that.
    i absolutely agree with you here. it's not responsible, and i've found that personally true for relationship conflicts - sometimes i do things because they seem right in the moment without considering the longterm interpersonal implications, and accidentally hurt someone because i wasn't careful to think of the broader impacts.

    i dunno. all of what i'm saying could be only true for me or a handful of ENFPs, but i'm doing my best to think of the ENFPs and NFPs and just FPs i know, and most of them really seem to fit this pattern.

    my theory, personally, is that FPs tend to build Fi "code" (pirate code! lol) - in other words, when a certain situation occurs, we cognitively check the "code" of values to see how we should respond. i imagine it's somewhat similar with TPs, in terms of a logical code of how to respond. whereas FJs and TJs have a Ni vision or a Si amalgamation pulling them forward. hence FPs don't have much people foresight - we tend to respond more than initiate. all just patterns and tendencies, of course, nothing set in stone. just a concept.

  9. #119
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    my point that most ENFPs aren't going to engage someone with the intent to manipulate still stands.
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    and i'm no angel, of course. the way i manipulate is more like this:
    Cognitive dissonance, FTW!

    No offence, but we're seldom the best judge of our own behaviour. Check the poll, and reflect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salome View Post
    I think if this is one of your values, then you're unlikely to engage in the kind of behaviour we're talking about. If it's not, you will. And not all ENFPs have great personal ethics.
    I agree that not all ENFPs have great personal ethics. However, just speaking from my own experience, I've been told on this forum, for example, in vent that I flirt with "everyone" and I don't see it that way. I find it a bit surprising, because when I was in high school I was so naive that I would be nice to guys who I thought were like brothers to me, and then turn around and be absolutely surprised that they were interested in me in a sexual way, a couple of them even got angry with me when I was around 18 or 19. So then I learned my lesson.

    Some people may think I have rotten personal ethics to work in the adult industry, but I find that to be a place of mutual consent where it's common knowledge from the outset that this is entertainment, especially since the women are usually treated as sex objects rather than a whole person to be loved.

    For a long time I didn't like to be mean to men I didn't like in a sexual way though, so I guess that could also be misconstrued as "leading people on." I actually learned to be harsher for my own personal safety, I realized it was dumb to keep being nice to someone who wanted to bed me if I didn't at least like him as a friend.

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