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  1. #51
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    How is being proud of your involuntary personality type any better than being proud of your race (or other random uncontrollable demographic)?
    it helps people identify with others, commiserate AND encourage, and it helps people understand their individual potential far better than it does when they don't fucking communicate at all or have any discernible starting point 'cept the complete chaos and mindfuck of their own messy individual experience. it helps re-frame your own expectations into a way of looking at the world that will help you be realistic, more accurate, and more in-touch with the situation at-hand and what you can do right now to improve yourself.

    you can test yourself a la Ti and construct a new story and new histories, but that doesn't necessarily have the same effect/affect on an F type. F types need to relate, they need inspiration more than they need to approach life as a game, they need resonance and emotional meaning first and foremost to get them out of bed. these things can very much be helped by psychological constructs. most nf types really get into the enneagram system too, and for many it helps them find a space they feel they can be happy dwelling within.

    it facilitates individuals recognizing the value in their way of doing things that, previously, has often felt threatened, misrepresented, and underappreciated. pride is a necessary component of psychological life.

  2. #52
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    This is true also. As mentioned before, TypoC is not representative of the real world, and I imagine INFJs have it a bit rough offline.

    In many ways, I get less negative judgments than INTx types I know IRL. I have that romantic artsy side which excuses a lot for me
    i'm sure the nt types annoy far more people than the nf types. the nf types just handle it so much more poorly on the whole. we want to be liked, appreciated, and valued by others. so much so that we often go to far too great lengths to protect this. which is part of what annoys nt types, ironically enough. our own uncertainty and insecurity and the resulting behaviors.

    we also have a desire to be recognized for our own unique contributions, but, again, in my mind, this is due to the sensitivity of inf/nf types and the 4/5 needs that correspond with a myriad of N types. (especially infx, but also intp and intj, along with a few supposed enp types as well). the 4w3s sure take it better, but that's largely bc they know how to double-life it easier.

  3. #53
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Exactly. It's not like being Ni-dom scores you major points in the real world either. But some INFPs tend to always feel victimized for some reason, and it can get to seem like whining.
    I can see why you would say that, but I really do think what I'm saying has an objective basis in reality. "Whiny", "flakey", "conflict-avoidant", "oversensitive", and "overemotional" have to be among the least respected (and certainly least feared, which could be germane) traits a person can have in a western society.

  4. #54
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I can see why you would say that, but I really do think what I'm saying has an objective basis in reality. "Whiny", "flakey", "oversensitive", and "overemotional" have to be among the least respected (and certainly least feared, which could be germane) traits a person can have in a western society.
    So which came first, the chicken or the egg? Society shunned INFPs for being whiny and sensitive, or INFPs were whiny and sensitive which caused them to be shunned by society?

  5. #55
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    So which came first, the chicken or the egg? Society shunned INFPs for being whiny and sensitive, or INFPs were whiny and sensitive which caused them to be shunned by society?
    Whichever way makes no difference -- the outcome is the same. My point being that western society generally has far less tolerance for whininess and sensitivity (wherever it's coming from) than it does for eg insensitivity and abusiveness. Look at House as an easy fictional example.

  6. #56
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Whichever way makes no difference -- the outcome is the same. My point being that western society generally has far less tolerance for whininess and sensitivity (wherever it's coming from) than it does for eg insensitivity and abusiveness. Look at House as an easy fictional example.
    Are whininess and oversensitivity inherent in the INFP (serious question)?

  7. #57
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I can see why you would say that, but I really do think what I'm saying has an objective basis in reality. "Whiny", "flakey", "conflict-avoidant", "oversensitive", and "overemotional" have to be among the least respected (and certainly least feared, which could be germane) traits a person can have in a western society.
    western society is kind of a bullshit concept, i find, but if you are going to talk about it and associate it with a lot of the negative forms of life we nfs have come to hate about choices made in american politics, government, education, and economic life, then don't use it as a negative image upon which to project yourself. diagnose it for what it is, a rotting grapefruit, something sick and cancerous falling onto itself and full of nothing but an elaborate system of smoke and mirrors.

    also is it just me or are nf words finally catching up, with the very obvious information popping up everywhere corroborating their now-prophetic words, and the alleged enfj in the white house, etc? creating and communicating personal values, real life value in subjective experience, and forms of life that appreciate and revere LIFE over whatever we have replaced it with, are the very projects we have the abilities to do. it's a very real contribution to society and speaks to something that can never be stamped out.

  8. #58
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Are whininess and oversensitivity inherent in the INFP (serious question)?
    Oversensitivity to criticism, certainly, though I don't think whininess is.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    western society is kind of a bullshit concept, i find, but if you are going to talk about it and associate it with a lot of the negative forms of life we nfs have come to hate about choices made in american politics, government, education, and economic life, then don't use it as a negative image upon which to project yourself. diagnose it for what it is, a rotting grapefruit, something sick and cancerous falling onto itself and full of nothing but an elaborate system of smoke and mirrors.
    I specify "western" society to distinguish from many "eastern" societies where rudeness and insensitivity are significantly more abhorred, and social harmony more valued.

  9. #59
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    How is being proud of your involuntary personality type any better than being proud of your race (or other random uncontrollable demographic)?
    It's a no-win situation is it? If you want to change your type, you are in denial. If you are proud and embrace your faults/strengths, then it's irrational. Are you proud of being a member of whichever country you are born in (which you have no control over as well)?

    And while "Eastern" societies may be more polite, a Chinese guy in his late 30s who is not married and who has no ambitions to start his own business does not have it easy either. Trust me, I know

  10. #60
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Are whininess and oversensitivity inherent in the INFP (serious question)?
    The oversensitivity certainly. My brain is like an echo chamber for emotions. Criticisms, even constructive ones, will just bounce in there endlessly. I can probably remember the exact words of most of them years later. At the same time of course, all other emotions are the same as well, so it's both a gift and a curse. A simple word of appreciation or a sense of achievement can keep my head up in the clouds for ages.

    The whininess part I don't really agree with. Defensive maybe, since I don't like hearing the truth about myself sometimes, but then who does? But I am not prone to project my emotions onto other people. The "Woe is me. No one understands me" is just not my style.

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