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  1. #21
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    INFJ = Jesus

    ENFJ = the Devil

    Voila.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  2. #22
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    methought jesus was the stereotypical enfj. infjs are more to hitler's side.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    INFJ = Jesus

    ENFJ = the Devil

    Voila.
    That's what we want all the world to believe. We have a cunning plan.

  4. #24
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wastrd View Post
    methought jesus was the stereotypical enfj. infjs are more to hitler's side.
    I believe you have it backwards. Hitler was enfj; Jesus, an infj.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    That's what we want all the world to believe. We have a cunning plan.
    Very cunning. What's it like when everyone wants you?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  5. #25
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    To be honest, externally, in a social setting, I don't know that the differences between INFJ and ENFJ would be terribly apparent. Both would be relying on Fe. I have known INFJ's who can be much more talkative and babbly than ENFJ's in the same setting, and of course the reverse could be true too. I don't think you can use talkativeness (or lack of) as an indicator.

    I could tentatively say that ENFJ's, as most extroverts, would be more prone to talk or blurt something out before thinking it through, whereas introverts by definition tend to ponder before speaking - there's that delay. But I don't even know how useful this would be, either, because a more mature ENFJ may have learned this as well.

    From what I've gathered on the boards, ENFJ's seem to be much more influenced by Fe, and more prone to make themselves available to anybody and everybody - very open and engaging in their helpfulness and their desire to interact and initiate things, and to really nurture others. They might initiate without hesitation, and I think are much more naturally charismatic and much more obviously comfortable in group settings, which isn't the case with INFJ (although an INFJ can learn to fake that charisma, I suppose). INFJ's I think are more behind a wall, and initially come across more detached and sometimes more cold -- Ni is primary, so they aren't at the mercy, so to speak, of Fe to the degree that ENFJ's would be. INFJ's can probably say 'No' more easily.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #26
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Leave it to Cascade to supply a well-balanced lucid reply. Thanks, sweetie.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Very cunning. What's it like when everyone wants you?
    this is like that fortune cookie moment when you add "in bed" only it's "on a messageboard." also it's the idea of the infj. also it's like 5 or 6 people and no more.

    infjs are more detached bc they introvert more. Ti as tertiary can foster bitchiness or when healthier it can promote strong analytical skills and prompt very strong internal organization of Ni. also they retreat more and hide out by themselves when needed.

    most of all, the function difference in order DOES matter. dom Ni vs dom Fe is much different. you can avoid your second function a hell of a lot easier than you can avoid using your first. with enfjs they really have to find a way to make Ni work for them. both enfjs and entjs can experience huge tension in this regard and accepting it can be very difficult. accepting not-knowing via Te and the fluxyness of the world for entj, or accepting the sadness and struggle and tragedy and suffering and violence and ugliness of the world day in and day out for enfj. some become more focused and more insulated from these aspects of life, but regardless, they're painful and dominant extraverted judgers have a very difficult time letting go when the external world is not how they think it should be (especially for N types who see so much maddening and frustrating possibilty for change that does not occur).

    some enfjs have that "i just got back from a medical trip to honduras, or guatamala, or jamaica and i've seen heads splattered like watermelons" look in their eyes almost all the time. the pressure is pretty strong.

    on a side note, i'd like to point out something i've noticed when typing others. enfj infj estp and istp all share the same Fe Ni Se Ti functions, which creates some similarities. the way in which they interact tells a lot, and order is a process of development. in youth they are efj, inj, esp, and itp.

  8. #28
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    this is like that fortune cookie moment when you add "in bed" only it's "on a messageboard." also it's the idea of the infj. also it's like 5 or 6 people and no more.
    Oh I don't know. Take a look around here. You'll see what I mean. Plus, I've known rather a lot of INFJs irl and they all seem to get a free pass somehow, no matter how they behave. They're brilliant, they're passionate, etc et al. They'll always be worth the effort. It's some magic quality.

    infjs are more detached bc they introvert more. Ti as tertiary can foster bitchiness or when healthier it can promote strong analytical skills and prompt very strong internal organization of Ni. also they retreat more and hide out by themselves when needed.
    If I had the option of hiding, I'd do it too. My INFJ father looks at me like being in body must be some sort of private nightmare, like I should be shielding myself. I don't know how to shield myself. My Ni doesn't do that for me. It just sits there.

    most of all, the function difference in order DOES matter. dom Ni vs dom Fe is much different. you can avoid your second function a hell of a lot easier than you can avoid using your first. with enfjs they really have to find a way to make Ni work for them. both enfjs and entjs can experience huge tension in this regard and accepting it can be very difficult. accepting not-knowing via Te and the fluxyness of the world for entj, or accepting the sadness and struggle and tragedy and suffering and violence and ugliness of the world day in and day out for enfj. some become more focused and more insulated from these aspects of life, but regardless, they're painful and dominant extraverted judgers have a very difficult time letting go when the external world is not how they think it should be (especially for N types who see so much maddening and frustrating possibilty for change that does not occur).
    I can consciously avoid my second function? And can you explain the "enfjs have to find ways to make their Ni work for them" statement for me?


    some enfjs have that "i just got back from a medical trip to honduras, or guatamala, or jamaica and i've seen heads splattered like watermelons" look in their eyes almost all the time. the pressure is pretty strong.
    True.
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #29
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Oh I don't know. Take a look around here. You'll see what I mean. Plus, I've known rather a lot of INFJs irl and they all seem to get a free pass somehow, no matter how they behave. They're brilliant, they're passionate, etc et al. They'll always be worth the effort. It's some magic quality.
    i don't think this take is accurate based on the life experiences of most of the infjs on this board. i did not have this experience. i think infjs and intps are the most excited types to find community on a message-board, bc it eludes them most of all in the real world. the message-board is a little bit biased bc it's so infj (and infp) centric. we probably are one of the most well-represented types, and the message-board suits and accentuates many of our strengths.

    infjs are likable in real life bc they can be very easy to get along with and extremely low maintenance. get a little deeper and they can be very surprising for others which can be excitement, but rarely is it in a lasting way. and that's about the time the nfj issues start to creep up and make their presence felt. fuck, much of the the tme i'd rather be an infp and at least know what i'm dealing with day in day out, be in touch with myself and know who i am. or better yet, an enfp or entp. i agree Fe with Ni can be extremely difficult.

    If I had the option of hiding, I'd do it too. My INFJ father looks at me like being in body must be some sort of private nightmare, like I should be shielding myself. I don't know how to shield myself. My Ni doesn't do that for me. It just sits there.
    the idea in the lenore thomson book is that Ni helps you see new perspectives, re-frame problems rather than being stuck in the same Fe well all your life. realizing and accepting the feelings that wash over you, from others, from the weather, etc, and finding a way to accept it or see it in a different light, the big picture, what the world is made up of, and gradually lessen the iron fisted grip on how you think the world should be. accepting the suffering and tragedy around you rather than resisting it 100%. it's a question of idealism that only you can answer. i have an easier time with this than my entj friend does. i follow the ideas my Ni generates more than the ideals that Fe conceives. which is why enfj is so much more explosive, tho infj is so much more troubled by harmful ideas.


    I can consciously avoid my second function? And can you explain the "enfjs have to find ways to make their Ni work for them" statement for me?
    Se. tertiary relief/trap. it doesn't solve the problem but it blows off some fucking steam. i used Ti for a long time without developing Fe very well. it kinda leads you to self-justification, which can help protect your self-image and your values from the conflict that is brewing. my friend goes to vegas and stays high as a kite for 7 consecutive days. he comes back and while he hasn't solved a thing, at least he's rebooted.

    Ni would be used to work the problem over until you realize the problem as you have conceived of it is ultimately unsolvable. it is a question of inner peace. using the tension between Fe and Ni to create a stable platform for you to rely on, balance yourself with, etc. until Ni can generate other ways of seeing the connections that make up the good and bad around you and force Fe to let go of some of its dominance, the world is always going to have a terrible darkness hanging over it and weigh you down. you have some pretty good beacons like your sister and your friends on here that can hopefully keep that at bay. it's finding some way to encapsulate the goodness you find in them and other aspects of the world, your life, etc to stay bright when things get dark and storms start brewing around you. this is the way the big picture has to work to hold you together. acceptance and a kind of faith in something greater than your own experience and your own judgment.

    i know, easier said than done. i feel for you. it sounds like you've got a lot on your plate.

  10. #30
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i don't think this take is accurate based on the life experiences of most of the infjs on this board. i did not have this experience. i think infjs and intps are the most excited types to find community on a message-board, bc it eludes them most of all in the real world. the message-board is a little bit biased bc it's so infj (and infp) centric. we probably are one of the most well-represented types, and the message-board suits and accentuates many of our strengths.
    Well-said, as per usual, State.

    infjs are likable in real life bc they can be very easy to get along with and extremely low maintenance. get a little deeper and they can be very surprising for others which can be excitement, but rarely is it in a lasting way. and that's about the time the nfj issues start to creep up and make their presence felt. fuck, much of the the tme i'd rather be an infp and at least know what i'm dealing with day in day out, be in touch with myself and know who i am. or better yet, an enfp or entp. i agree Fe with Ni can be extremely difficult.
    Do you speak from your own personal experiences on that tac?

    I'd rather be Ne primary myself. It just seems so much more bullet-proof and self-rewarding.


    the idea in the lenore thomson book is that Ni helps you see new perspectives, re-frame problems rather than being stuck in the same Fe well all your life. realizing and accepting the feelings that wash over you, from others, from the weather, etc, and finding a way to accept it or see it in a different light, the big picture, what the world is made up of, and gradually lessen the iron fisted grip on how you think the world should be. accepting the suffering and tragedy around you rather than resisting it 100%. it's a question of idealism that only you can answer. i have an easier time with this than my entj friend does. i follow the ideas my Ni generates more than the ideals that Fe conceives. which is why enfj is so much more explosive, tho infj is so much more troubled by harmful ideas.
    My father told me something recently, something I remembered even this morning -- I wake or go to bed sick a lot. I've been fighting it for so long that it's second nature to brace myself when I feel it coming on. He told me not to fight it, to just let it happen because it was going to happen anyway, and then work to stop it when things had calmed down. This doesn't apply all the time, like with pain, but I get so angry and stiffen up when I feel sick and horrible AGAIN that not fighting it had never occurred to me.

    Are you troubled by harmful ideas because you never act on them?


    Se. tertiary relief/trap. it doesn't solve the problem but it blows off some fucking steam. i used Ti for a long time without developing Fe very well. it kinda leads you to self-justification, which can help protect your self-image and your values from the conflict that is brewing. my friend goes to vegas and stays high as a kite for 7 consecutive days. he comes back and while he hasn't solved a thing, at least he's rebooted.
    Entjs need that sort of physical connection and outlet. It's the same with my bff Athena. She needs to be very engaged in the present doing something she likes to counteract the stress she's under.

    Ni would be used to work the problem over until you realize the problem as you have conceived of it is ultimately unsolvable.
    Very interesting and I relate. Something for me to consider.


    it is a question of inner peace. using the tension between Fe and Ni to create a stable platform for you to rely on, balance yourself with, etc. until Ni can generate other ways of seeing the connections that make up the good and bad around you and force Fe to let go of some of its dominance, the world is always going to have a terrible darkness hanging over it and weigh you down.
    I've been trying many methods of peeling it's fingers back over the years. Nothing completely effective.


    you have some pretty good beacons like your sister and your friends on here that can hopefully keep that at bay. it's finding some way to encapsulate the goodness you find in them and other aspects of the world, your life, etc to stay bright when things get dark and storms start brewing around you. this is the way the big picture has to work to hold you together. acceptance and a kind of faith in something greater than your own experience and your own judgment.

    i know, easier said than done. i feel for you. it sounds like you've got a lot on your plate.
    Thank you for taking the time to explain your thoughts more fully, State. I appreciate it.
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