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  1. #41
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Just trying to understand why you guys are always getting hurt. I couldn't live my life like that. I guess the good thing is, you guys always bounce back.

  2. #42
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i think we just accept it as part of life. it always hurts when you loose someone you love but to have never loved would hurt more.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #43
    Senior Member FantailedWall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    it's hard for me to let go too. i pretty much want everyone i care about always in my life in some way...even if i almost never see them. i still want to feel close enough that i can call them and catch up sometimes.

  4. #44
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Well, it seems like NFs give chance after chance until they just can't take it anymore...and then the coldness. If someone was showing you again and again that they aren't worth your time, why keep giving them chances until you have to be an ice queen?

    Also, the whole not being who you thought they were thing... Couldn't that be your fault for idealizing them instead of seeing them for who they are?
    Agreed and agreed.

    This is one part of my temperament or character or being me that I wish I could change.

    Makes absolutely no sense. Why keep wanting someone who doesn't want you or is even good to you? Just move on!

    I have a very strong practical side and a side that wants to be ethically correct and strong and make good decisions for me.

    I'm sorry, I don't put any stock in this "I'll always be in love with XXX" if it means carrying a small flame for someone you can't have and never totally purging and healing.

    Sure, everyone you come in contact with affects you and I'll think fondly (or not) of people and they've made a mark on my heart map. Those places are deep and secret and mine. But, that doesn't mean I want to drag baggage and drama into future relationships. That is selfish, immature, and unhealthy.

    Why don't people understand that you can still care for people or have softs for people even after a dead relationship is fully *processed* and *resolved*. It's not about having "feelings" for people, it's about being smart and dealing with them.

    I think having battled with this damned demon for years, I have very little sympathy sometimes for fellow NFs who I don't think get it.

    It's one thing to know yourself and accept yourself and the way you're wired for love and relationships, but everyone has things they need to work on, and I think for NF's this is definitely one area that most of us have to continually (and continually) work on.

    Being am emo girl in your own private harlequin romance is soooooooooooooo over-rated. I would prefer real-life true love and if I keep sticking like glue to lame situations it will never, ever happen. And I don't deserve it to happen.

    If you want to be happy, you have to make yourself happy. If you want another meal, you have to clean your plate first.

    That damned ENFP blindspot, I'm happily going on my silly way and then BAM, I fall for someone and then it's fucking OVER. OVER I tell you. Drives me mad. Makes me so angry. :steam: I spend entirely too much time and energy on these unfortunate situations AND I KNOW IT.

    But you know what, even if it is in a sick way, I must love it. Intimacy and love are like crack for us.

    Which is why I strongly and stringently advocate for being more head-smart and good to yourself and fair to people and just basically not let rampant school-girl emotions control you. That's all.

    To Chris In Orbit, all you can do is tell your friend to be practical, but eventually she may get sick of these patterns and get smarter.

    Seriously, when you're in the grips of these fundamental scripts (and what you describe is a fundamental script for ENFPs and prolly NFs in general) it's almost impossible to break out of. People need to grow smarter and stronger at the end and after these situations and basically become slightly different people so they don't get into the situation in the first place or it's easier for them to get out of.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  5. #45
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    PS In case you didn't get it in my tirade against sappy love, I was actually going to say generally I can let go of things much more easily now and walk away from situations sooner and not get so tore up.

    It's all about experience and getting sick of cliche (when patterns always repeat, it gets cliche) and wanting more and better for yourself.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  6. #46
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    it's hard for me to let go too. i pretty much want everyone i care about always in my life in some way...even if i almost never see them. i still want to feel close enough that i can call them and catch up sometimes. i just really care about people.
    It's very hard for me too to let go. But I do have limit and when I reach it, I will let go and I will forget. So, I will not carry anybody in my heart for ever and ever if I have reached my limit. Then I'll just simply get over it and forget about that person.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyJungle View Post
    I do this in pretty much every relationship. I commit too early and feel an obligation to make things work in spite of any circumstances that are difficult. I take the blame for everything that is wrong in a relationship.
    I have also had a habit of committing too early but on the other hand I'm haven't been ready to be committed to everybody. I mean I was very picky when choosing the one I wanted to be with but when I found him I was 100%committed from the beginnig. (I now speak in past tense because I've been married for over 14 years now with the person I choose to be with and I guess he chose to be with me too, lol.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Well, it seems like NFs give chance after chance until they just can't take it anymore...and then the coldness. If someone was showing you again and again that they aren't worth your time, why keep giving them chances until you have to be an ice queen?

    Also, the whole not being who you thought they were thing... Couldn't that be your fault for idealizing them instead of seeing them for who they are?
    I do this. Give a chance, givea a chance and even one more. But if you screw up the last time, you won't get a chance, I mean never. I wont' be your friend, I don't want to see you or speak to you, ever. That 's the way it goes with me.

    I do idealize some people but MBTI has helped to see the personalities of people behind the idealized curtain I have covered them into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Just trying to understand why you guys are always getting hurt. I couldn't live my life like that. I guess the good thing is, you guys always bounce back.
    I get hurt but I get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    i think we just accept it as part of life. it always hurts when you loose someone you love but to have never loved would hurt more.
    Yes, excactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    PS In case you didn't get it in my tirade against sappy love, I was actually going to say generally I can let go of things much more easily now and walk away from situations sooner and not get so tore up.

    It's all about experience and getting sick of cliche (when patterns always repeat, it gets cliche) and wanting more and better for yourself.

    Yes, experience counts even if it hurts still. But maybe it hurts a bit less because you know life goes on even after it. So, the world didn't come to and end.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    PS In case you didn't get it in my tirade against sappy love, I was actually going to say generally I can let go of things much more easily now and walk away from situations sooner and not get so tore up.

    It's all about experience and getting sick of cliche (when patterns always repeat, it gets cliche) and wanting more and better for yourself.
    I'm glad to see its not some hopeless part of you. Its always great to see a person who knows they can make themselves better and actually puts in the effort to.
    I really like idealists; I wish they would take better care of themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    I do this. Give a chance, givea a chance and even one more. But if you screw up the last time, you won't get a chance, I mean never. I wont' be your friend, I don't want to see you or speak to you, ever. That 's the way it goes with me.
    Doesn't it take a lot of energy to maintain that?

  8. #48
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Doesn't it take a lot of energy to maintain that?
    Hmmm... I don't understand.
    What do you mean?

  9. #49
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erinavery View Post
    hey...what's this obsession with blame? i don't know i just don't care...there's compatible and non compatible...i don't think anyone is doing anything "wrong" by being who they are....not to say that striving for growth and balance isn't important but there's no "better" way to approach the relationship...it's not a competition.

    i happen to like that i see the good in people and feel i'd be a lot less happy if all i saw were everyone's faults.
    I don't think it's about "blame" as much as it is about acknowledging respsonsibility. I also don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Chris meant "wrong" for being who you are, but rather "wrong" for staying in a situation where it is clearly not working.

    I don't like the label "wrong" or "right" either in this situation. I definitely believe that people are people, everyone is worthy of basic respect, and everyone has their own paths to live, etc. Humans are not inherently valued more or less than someone else, no matter what the difference in talents and status and physical beauty and intelligence, etc.

    Having said all that, I think it is imperative for healthy functional happy adults to take ownership for our actions. I think it's important not to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for ourselves or romanticizing people and situations after the fact.

    I'm an enneatype 7, it is REALLY easy for me to find the lesson and silver lining in any crappy situation, it's great for actually learnng and growing and being pretty chill with life. But the shadow of that is that I 'optimize' the situation in my head in order to lessen and avert the negative emotional impact of acknowledging just how crappy it really is and not have to deal with just how serious the situation is.

    I am wary of ignoring people's faults. Faults and warts and all -- they don't mean a person is "bad" or automatically nixes them from friends and so list. It's a part of them as much as the "good" parts and makes them fully human. I think true compassion and connecting with people means seeing and acknoweldging the whole person, uglies and addictions and all. And sometimes the good isn't enough, sometimes love isn't enough, sometimes good intentions aren't enough. And that's life.

    Nothing pisses me off more than when people refuse to acknowledge things and take personal ownership. For how they help create unhappy and dysfunctional situations for themselves through poor decisions and personal choice or people who refuse to acknowledge the glaring poor points in bad situations and troubled people and either deny it, minimize it, or swear "it will get better" when there are absolutely no real indications for that.

    I grew up with enabling behavior and I HATE ENABLING BEHAVIOR. There are not enough caps locks in the world for me to express how much I loathe this behavior when I see it in myself and in others.

    It's one thing to be 'idealistic' in the classic sense of the word, but to be self-deceptive is another thing entirely. I actually don't have a problem with lying in the classic sense (where you consciously know something and purposely say something different) because at least you know what you are doing and you commit to it. But I cannot stand self-deception and people pretending and denying and refusing to acknowledge or take ownership of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I think we just value relationship above all else. It's important not to trash something if there is any possibility of it being redeemable, because maintaining relationships is important in and of itself, an idea that overrides the particular relationship we happen to be in at the moment.
    The 'idealist' part!

    Actually, for me, when I get caught up in a situation, I am not even that lofty and I don't say that in a facetious way. I admire that people can care so much about the idea and ideal of the sanctity of a relationship to value it so highly.

    For me? I just want what I want what I want. It really is that simple and I have no shame admitting it. That is also my saving grace as to why I am getting better and smarter and happier as I get older and creating much more functional and rewarding relationships and just creating more positivity in my life, I am unabashedly selfish and I do me.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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