And if he isnt risen...

[wool]

So it was essentially a battle, between Christ and Satan, for the souls of humanity? How could Satan prevent God for forgiving sin, though? It seems to me that God could do that already, just by virtue of being God. No need for a death and resurrection, or epic battle in the underworld, though coming in human form to show people how to live using his own example is pretty important IME.

Satan has been quite successful in convincing humanity that he doesn't even exist and that there is no need to be saved.

 

[Blacksheep2017]

Jesus Christ was a real man. Historians far and wide believe this to be fact. I personally am humbled enough to believe that people with PHDs in theology are probably more knowledgeable than I and if they can pursue such lengthy studies on text that many deem "outrageous claims", then there must be some merit there. Also, keep in mind that we are human. We are not God. So our level of understanding is inferior. That's why God advised us to not lean on our understanding of things. We are sinners living in a tainted world. Our ideology will be naturally tainted as well.

Some people need science. I get it. This video may be able to help you in determining the authenticity of Christ's death and resurrection. As humans, we can't fathom that this extraordinary event actually happened because we see Christ as merely another human being. But we forget that he was God in the flesh. Capable of far more miracles and supernatural feats than us.

 

[wool]

As humans, we can't fathom that this extraordinary event actually happened because we see Christ as merely another human being. But we forget that he was God in the flesh. Capable of far more miracles and supernatural feats than us.

John 5:30
"I can of mine own self do nothing."

John 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me."

Jesus never used His divinity to perform miracles. It was by faith in God alone that He did everything.

Don't you know that the apostles performed miracles too? Peter walked on water, and raised the dead, and Paul healed a crippled man, for example. This is the level of faith we need.

 

[Blacksheep2017]

John 5:30
"I can of mine own self do nothing."

John 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me."

Jesus never used His divinity to perform miracles. It was by faith in God alone that He did everything.

Don't you know that the apostles performed miracles too? Peter walked on water, and raised the dead, and Paul healed a crippled man, for example. This is the level of faith we need.

"I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

I'm referencing Christ specifically. Not them. None of them were crucified and resurrected to pay for everyone's sin, were they? Was that not the biggest event to happen in the Christian faith or the world? The single most miraculous thing that no one else was able to do? Jesus far outdid anything that apostales did. Peter walked on water because he saw Jesus walking on water. He told him "if it's you Lord, ask me to come to you" and Jesus replied "come". I don't know if Peter himself could have walked on water at any time for any reason. It was this interaction with Jesus in that moment that made it possible.

Jesus was God, born into the flesh to live life as a human and die as a human for the sins of mankind. Jesus had a mission and he alone was the only one capable of that mission. I really was just speaking to the significance of his being as a whole.

But I'm not going to fine tune and cherry pick bible verses back and forth with you. I'm not a theologian. I have read the Bible with much uncertainty and confusion like many others. I think we both have the same goal here in that we are believers of Christ and the resurrection. Those things are simple truths for us. Easy to understand, believe and give thanks for, once someone is saved.

 

[Avocado]

It has always been about eternal life.

The first lie satan told was "you will not surely die".

If Christ wasn't resurrected that would mean there is no hope for us, and Satan would claim victory.

Nothing and nobody lasts forever. As a matter of fact, eastern cultures have delved at length into how to deal with the realization that nothing we do will last. Christianity relies too much on mythology and not enough on philosophy. East Asian Religion, for all its faults, is far preferable to western religion in that it at least tries to justify itself based on real world problems. No religion is best for healthy, well-balanced people, with maybe Zen Buddhism as a close second if you MUST have a mystical approach to life.

 

[wool]

"I and the Father are one.” John 10:30

I'm referencing Christ specifically. Not them. None of them were crucified and resurrected to pay for everyone's sin, were they? Was that not the biggest event to happen in the Christian faith or the world? The single most miraculous thing that no one else was able to do? Jesus far outdid anything that apostales did. Peter walked on water because he saw Jesus walking on water. He told him "if it's you Lord, ask me to come to you" and Jesus replied "come". I don't know if Peter himself could have walked on water at any time for any reason. It was this interaction with Jesus in that moment that made it possible.

Jesus was God, born into the flesh to live life as a human and die as a human for the sins of mankind. Jesus had a mission and he alone was the only one capable of that mission. I really was just speaking to the significance of his being as a whole.

But I'm not going to fine tune and cherry pick bible verses back and forth with you. I'm not a theologian. I have read the Bible with much uncertainty and confusion like many others. I think we both have the same goal here in that we are believers of Christ and the resurrection. Those things are simple truths for us. Easy to understand, believe and give thanks for, once someone is saved.

Jesus was constantly stressing to His disciples that it was through no power of His own that He did anything during His time spent on Earth. In His humanity He was totally dependent on the divine power of the Father.

Just like Jesus, we aren't capable of doing anything on our own. We are dependent on Christ, like Christ was dependent on the Father.

 

[wool]

Nothing and nobody lasts forever. As a matter of fact, eastern cultures have delved at length into how to deal with the realization that nothing we do will last. Christianity relies too much on mythology and not enough on philosophy. East Asian Religion, for all its faults, is far preferable to western religion in that it at least tries to justify itself based on real world problems. No religion is best for healthy, well-balanced people, with maybe Zen Buddhism as a close second if you MUST have a mystical approach to life.

Nothing and nobody lasts forever? How do you know that? Based on what?

Are you a perfect example of a healthy, well balanced person?

Where does all this preaching come from?

 

[Avocado]

Nothing and nobody lasts forever? How do you know that? Based on what?

Are you a perfect example of a healthy, well balanced person?

Where is all this preaching coming from?

Look. Everything that ever has existed has eventually come to an end. Stars explode. People die. Trees fall over and decay. Radioactive isotopes decay into more stable isotopes, which themselves decay into low energy high entropy particles. Civilizations rise and fall. Even our universe seems to have began at a high energy state and is winding down towards heat death (though heat death is 10^300 years away, thats a 10 with 300 zeros after it.) However, because everything comes from the same decaying matter, we are all connected in a weird way.

The leading hypothesis on universe birth is that after universes die, after enough time passes, metastable physical laws can reach a new stability point and kick off a new universe. I'm not an expert, but cosmology and its newest hypothesis are fascinating.

 

[wool]

Look. Everything that ever has existed has eventually come to an end. Stars explode. People die. Trees fall over and decay. Radioactive isotopes decay into more stable isotopes, which themselves decay into low energy high entropy particles. Civilizations rise and fall. Even our universe seems to have began at a high energy state and is winding down towards heat death (though heat death is 10^300 years away, thats a 10 with 300 zeros after it.) However, because everything comes from the same decaying matter, we are all connected in a weird way.

The leading hypothesis on universe birth is that after universes die, after enough time passes, metastable physical laws can reach a new stability point and kick off a new universe. I'm not an expert, but cosmology and its newest hypothesis are fascinating.

What you are displaying here is human wisdom.

The foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom.

You are completely ignorant of spiritual things.

 

[geedoenfj]

I don't think there's any way possible to assume that any bones belongs to anyone at that time -Jesus or not- unless there's other solid evidence we could rely on

 

[wool]

Lot of great posts there but I've not got the motivation to respond today.

If you don't do your chores, they will just keep piling up.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Jesus lived and lives today. He fulfilled his mission here on earth to save us from Death and Sin. Through him and by him we are blessed and redeemed.

Overcoming Death and Sin required someone different from the rest, a divine presence here on earth. Mere prophets or apostles could not do so. Instead, the Son of God was needed, to come down to Earth and take upon himself all the sins, pains, anguish, torment, and suffering of all, bleeding from every pore. He paid the price to free us, that through him we might be redeemed.

Without Jesus, we could not reach Heaven. He is the great intercessor, the advocate, the mediator, the prince of peace.

All people can partake of his love. His light can bring understanding. His love can lift burdens and bring hope.

 

[Lark]

If you don't do your chores, they will just keep piling up.

That's part of it, sure, the rest of it is diabetes.

 

[Blacksheep2017]

What you are displaying here is human wisdom.

The foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom.

You are completely ignorant of spiritual things.

I agree with this. It is human wisdom.

But you really need to work on your delivery. It's not very INFJ of you to be so rigid in your communication. Lol

 

[wool]

I agree with this. It is human wisdom.

But you really need to work on your delivery. It's not very INFJ of you to be so rigid in your communication. Lol

What type do you suggest? Lol.

 

[Blacksheep2017]

The highlighted makes some sense, but the rest still does not follow. What does it mean to say that Christ's sacrifice (and what was that, anyway? all the suffering he endured? we can't say his life, because he got that back in spades) was "for the sins of the world"? What does it mean to be "for our sins"?

I'm not a theologian, but simply wanting to open dialogue.

When God created Adam and Eve death didn't exist. Everything was perfect in His creation. He told Adam and Eve that they had everything and to not eat from the tree or that the they would surely die. The punishment for sin then became death, right?

God doesn't contradict Himself. Our sins therefore separated us from God. Nothing we ever did or even could do now could earn Heaven. The only way to Heaven was through Christ. God, Himself, loved mankind so much, that He came to us in the flesh to pay the price for sin, for us. Which was death. He then spent time in Hell before ascending to Heaven as the resurrected savior. So he did pay the price for sin for us and through him, some will ascend to Heaven as well. His righteousness cleanses our sinful nature.

Does this make sense? That's how I'm understanding it. This article is actually far better at explaining that than me.

Why did God impose the death penalty for sin? - CMI Mobile

 

[Totenkindly]

What type do you suggest? Lol.

Maybe just a type that wants to learn about others and be part of the community, versus deciding this has suddenly become fertile territory for proselytizing and promoting your particular interpretation of your particular holy scripture to the exclusion of whatever else?

You can either share/discuss ideas, or you can preach at people / scatterbomb the forum with Bible verses, and most of us aren't interested in the latter.

Hint: talk about your own personal experience more.

 

[Blacksheep2017]

What type do you suggest? Lol.

A lot of your forum posts remind me of my INTJ side. Direct, confident, borderline arrogant communicative style. INFJs usually sugarcoat to maintain harmony. Which I do a lot with strangers. My INTJ style is pretty notorious in my real life relationships with people I know. Just a thought. I'm not a pro at typing. Lol

 

[Avocado]

I agree with this. It is human wisdom.

But you really need to work on your delivery. It's not very INFJ of you to be so rigid in your communication. Lol

I may have conceded somewhat towards your libertarian positions, but on this topic, I sharply disagree. Man is the measure of all things. Not all wise teachers in the past relied on mythology to disseminate wisdom. While I suspect many of his teachings have been distorted by years of oral transmission, Siddhartha Gautama's teachings hold much wisdom for one to contemplate.

Also, [MENTION=28104]wool[/MENTION], here is a video to ponder:

 

[Blacksheep2017]

I may have conceded somewhat towards your libertarian positions, but on this topic, I sharply disagree. Man is the measure of all things. Not all wise teachers in the past relied on mythology to disseminate wisdom. While I suspect many of his teachings have been distorted by years of oral transmission, Siddhartha Gautama's teachings hold much wisdom for one to contemplate.

Also, [MENTION=28104]wool[/MENTION], here is a video to ponder:

Everyone has to seek their own path in terms of religious convictions or moral philosophies. One thing I have learned over the years (as a Christian) is that preaching bible verses mean NOTHING to people who do not know Jesus. Bible verses are meant for all to live by but only for followers to understand. How could we possibly expect someone who has not personally experienced the feeling of the Holy Spirit to understand the word of God? We can't.

I try to just share what I feel is in my heart, from my personal experience or understanding. Or even the things I've learned. That's why I attached the video I did. That's not to say that we can't learn from other philosophies. There are actually a lot of parallels between Buddha's teaching and God's. So I think there are a lot of universal truths. But, one must wonder where these convictions of the conscience derive from. For me, I believe it's the way God created us. To inherently have an idea of what's right and wrong in our everyday lives.