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What can religion teach atheists?

Coriolis

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Unfortunately it is religion that enables ordinary people to commit extraordinary crimes.
No, it is human nature. Religion, like other systems of values and ideology, is just an effective tool for doing to. It is also an effective tool for enabling the opposite. But that is the nature of a tool: it can be used for good or for ill, depending on the motivations of the user.
 

fetus

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I think many Holy texts have things that everyone can benefit from. For instance, the Proverbs in the Christian Bible are full of common sense.

Here's Proverbs 3:27-31



Like, that's just common decency. Proverbs also has a lot to say on working hard, pride, wisdom, etc.
 
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I am usually very reluctant in sharing my beliefs, but I have been thinking about them for a while now and decided to respond in this thread. I'm an atheist, but there are some things in life that leave me in bewilderment, as I have heard and seen many miracles and strange apparitions happen where I find myself questioning my own beliefs at times. Sometimes I even feel guilty because most of my extended family is very religious and they regularly pray for everyone in their family. I have to tell myself that it's okay how there are still unexplained incidents in life and it doesn't necessarily make someone a bad person if they don't share the same beliefs as other people, as everyone in the world believes something different.

For me, I have found that spirituality is the answer to meet my otherwise nonexistant beliefs. I find it keeps me grounded and appreciative of life itself. I also believe there are good lessons we can learn from various Holy texts like we can from Greek mythology and other stories. Even as an atheist, I can still take certain aspects from the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tripitaka, etc. and see why there are some deep, insightful teachings from those religious texts that can be applicable to everyday life. However, even though I can appreciate some of the teachings from certain religious beliefs, I am fine with being unaffiliated with any religion, as I don't believe in their deities and find it's what's generally best for me. I also think spirituality is great, but not necessary for one to achieve bliss, although I do think it does help in becoming at peace with one's self.

I think it's good to be educated to get a well-rounded understanding on many religions to see how different cultures are influenced by their religious beliefs, how it impacts them, etc. The same as why we learn history and other subjects - because knowledge is power.
 

Typh0n

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I think religion can teach athiests that there is more to life than it seems, basically to seek the mysteries and to seek mystery. Of course one doesn't need religion for this, but it seems historically religions, especially the ancient religions, have promoted a sense of wonder at the universe, at life, at our minds better than atheism has.

Also, consider that not all forms of religion are incomptable with religion; Buddhism and Laveyan Satanism are atheistic religions.
 

Mole

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No, it is human nature. Religion, like other systems of values and ideology, is just an effective tool for doing to. It is also an effective tool for enabling the opposite. But that is the nature of a tool: it can be used for good or for ill, depending on the motivations of the user.

We create our tools then our tools create us.

Not to know the particular effects a particular tool has on our psyche, on our perceptions, how we see the world, on our relationships, on how we feel, is derelict.

But then New Age bromides are to soothe us and put us to sleep, while the tools we create go about their business of creating us.
 

wool

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Atheists need spiritual regeneration, not theoretical knowledge. Without the Spirit they will not even respond to spiritual things.
 

Mole

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Atheists need spiritual regeneration, not theoretical knowledge. Without the Spirit they will not even respond to spiritual things.

There is some truth in this as religion can restore the spirit is some cases, however we live in a secular society that practises therapy, psychotherapy, to restore the spirit in some cases. So we can see psychotherapy as an iteration of religion.

For instance, Bhagwan Shree Ragneesh sought to teach Hinduism and psychotherapy as one philosophy. And to some extent Christian religions are adopting the practices of psychotherapy.

On Typology Central we don't practice psychotherapy anymore than we practice a particular religion, although it is plain many of us come here looking, at least unconsciously, on how to restore our spirits.
 

LightSun

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No, it is human nature. Religion, like other systems of values and ideology, is just an effective tool for doing to. It is also an effective tool for enabling the opposite. But that is the nature of a tool: it can be used for good or for ill, depending on the motivations of the user.

I am agnostic. To answer the question religion can teach basic philosophical principles such the like in Buddhism. I agree with Coriolis to take the good from what one can find and ignore that which is not fruitful or to dogmatic. People would commit all manner of evil with religion or without. My problem with religion is it tells you what to do but there is no codified way to practice and instill these core concepts so that they are actually lived by.

I can't stand the hypocrisy in religion and people hiding behind it due to rationalization, denial and judgment of those not on their path. I try to meet all on an even playing field and as I said learn what I can from different perspectives.
 

wool

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My problem with religion is it tells you what to do but there is no codified way to practice and instill these core concepts so that they are actually lived by.

Luke 10:26-28

26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”
 

Mole

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Luke 10:26-28

26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”
27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”

When we can't speak in our own voice and instead quote others, it shows a psychological immaturity or a psychopathology. And unfortunately we don't practise psychotherapy here, and the fantasy of mbti keeps is safe in our immaturity.
 

LightSun

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What can religion teach those who vehemently oppose the notion of God? In my opinion I can't think of anything. Both belief holders and atheists sides, the more conservative orientated are dogmatic. There's is the only way and if you disagree you are not seriously seeing truth correctly, are wrong, are an idiot or a sinner going to hell. This is of course those who are most dogmatic in their beliefs and not open to other lines of inquiry, faith or different belief system. In this case, subjective emotion -based opinion, judgment and labeling furthering a divide between us and them.

This accomplishes nothing. It takes one away from the table of discussion. They are ruled by their passions and are not clear headed enough to engage in critical thinking dialogue. They are a resistance to both change and problem solving. They are an island unto themselves and in a blind box. They don't care and can't readily be reached.

I am agnostic. To answer the question religion can teach basic philosophical principles such the like in Buddhism but not is hard core against religion of any sort. I take the good from what one can find and ignore that which is not fruitful or to dogmatic. People would commit all manner of evil with religion or without. My problem with religion is it tells you what to do but there is no codified way to practice and instill these core concepts so that they are actually lived by.

I can't stand the hypocrisy in religion and people hiding behind it due to rationalization, denial and judgment of those not on their path. I try to meet all on an even playing field and as I said learn what I can from different perspectives. I try to be open minded with another belief system. I look for communication over differences. In other words more walking the talk than merely what anybody does believes in or not.
 

Lark

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What can religion teach those who vehemently oppose the notion of God? In my opinion I can't think of anything. Both belief holders and atheists sides, the more conservative orientated are dogmatic. There's is the only way and if you disagree you are not seriously seeing truth correctly, are wrong, are an idiot or a sinner going to hell. This is of course those who are most dogmatic in their beliefs and not open to other lines of inquiry, faith or different belief system. In this case, subjective emotion -based opinion, judgment and labeling furthering a divide between us and them.

This accomplishes nothing. It takes one away from the table of discussion. They are ruled by their passions and are not clear headed enough to engage in critical thinking dialogue. They are a resistance to both change and problem solving. They are an island unto themselves and in a blind box. They don't care and can't readily be reached.

I am agnostic. To answer the question religion can teach basic philosophical principles such the like in Buddhism but not is hard core against religion of any sort. I take the good from what one can find and ignore that which is not fruitful or to dogmatic. People would commit all manner of evil with religion or without. My problem with religion is it tells you what to do but there is no codified way to practice and instill these core concepts so that they are actually lived by.

I can't stand the hypocrisy in religion and people hiding behind it due to rationalization, denial and judgment of those not on their path. I try to meet all on an even playing field and as I said learn what I can from different perspectives. I try to be open minded with another belief system. I look for communication over differences. In other words more walking the talk than merely what anybody does believes in or not.

Religion involves a subject of devotion and a frame of reference towards reality, including a system of values and ethics, in theistic religions the subject of devotion is a deity or divinity, in non-theistic religions the object of devotion is going to be something else, enlightenment, transcendence, knowledge whatever.

Even of the theistic religions which have God as a subject of ultimate devotion there's a lot of distinctiveness to the different schools of thought, I've read some interesting accounts of God and divinity which consider both to be synonymous with humanity, all the writings within the bible about if you want to love God then love your neighbor, that every individual human being is the living image of God, joined up with a quasi-mystical or pseudo-religious understanding of psychology, individual, social, conscious, unconscious.

Jung thought that there was a dialogue or dialectic between the divine mind or being and human minds and beings, its part of how he accounted for what appears to be the growth and change in God which appears to be simultaneous to that of human kind throughout the old and new testaments leading up to the incarnation and death/sacrifice of God their Godselves in the person of Jesus. Which lines up pretty interestingly enough with some of the kabbalistic ideas about the 32 just men, one of whom can emerge as the messiah at any given moment but are likely to be killed for doing so, like the prophets and Jesus in the old and new testament.

Those ideas to me are interesting because they bridge the gap, for me at least, between materialism and supernatural accounts/beliefs, though they'd be total and utter heresy to some more narrowly doctrinaire believers, and possibly equally to some more narrowly doctrinaire athiests for whom not even mythology or mysticism can serve any purpose what so ever at all.

Anyway, in both of those conceptions the idea of the deity, to which devotion is directed, is such that it effectively calls for a more general devotion to all humanity, which puts the ethics, norms, mores, values of believers and society into a new context, they make sense because all those questions relate now to how do you practically be devoted to God, is it prayers, church attendance, how often you invite others to your church (or to adopting your personal creedo as their own) or is it a matter of being related to neighbours and other human beings through systematic values, ethics and knowledge of human nature.

Even if a religion has that weird divorce between the deity and paying them homage and worldly or temporal ethics and values, which is weird to me, very, very weird, those same schools of thought, for the most part, involve some sort of benefice and benevolence towards all things of God's creation and others like your self. So there's a role, it plays an important function and has for the majority of people for the majority of human history, that's not to say numbers trumph reason, its just to say its served a lot of people well to this point, the rate at which its challenged, questioned and forsaken I actually dont believe would have been possible without the religious ground work done to prepare for such a state of being in the first place.
 

Lark

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Something I just want to say, and I've had this conversation with both believers and non-believers and they've both attacked my thinking equally forcefully as absurd BTW, I dont believe that religion is about "pie in the sky", any sort of rewards and promises and covenants are all just hopes, often they are human, all too human hopes and I can conceive of a reality, easily, in which there is no afterlife, its just not in God's design, he gives us all the one life and we make of it what we can he has provided throughout history all the pointers as to how to make the best of it and how humanity has balls up creation and made life a grind for themselves.

If it could be proven beyond all doubts that there's no afterlife, I'd still profess a belief in Christianity as I understand it.

Any God that can be proven to exist I dont believe is an actual God, I'm a total believer in negative theology these days, we should concentrate on what can be known instead of doing too much theorising and projecting around what can not, its too much inclined to descend into idolatry and most of all the world faiths have extended dialogues on avoiding or attack that, on avoiding and attacking all other sorts of alienation and psychological projection too, as I understand it.

For as many people as there are familiar with Marx's quote about religion being the opium of the people, they arent familiar with the whole quote because the other part of it is that religion is "the heart of a heartless world", he is discussing it not disdainfully as an addiction, prop or narco-lifestyle choice so much as he says its a pain killer, pain killers are good, at its best its a positive thing, gives people a steer, however, he did premise his own thinking on intellectual rigor and not feelings (contra a lot of what the left and right consider to be the case) so he wasnt that hot on people getting emotional steers or acting "from the heart".
 

draon9

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I so cant wait for you to provide the evidence for this groundless statement.

all of them does not have the whole truth, a lot of them have their own sayings
 

Poki

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Card carrying atheist here, been one my whole life, was closeted for the first 30 years or so. It wasn't until the new atheists came about did I find the courage to say F it and own the label, for political reasons. For years I always deflected religious conversations with something like "I'm not a very religious person" in order to avoid potential conflicts, wasting my time or losing social value. That said Alain de Boton makes excellent points. I've totally reassessed how I view religion as a consequence. I sort of view it from a sociopolitical or cultural perspective now or how best to organize society.
Thoughts on the topic?
Religion is actually based on meeting alot of different needs. Sociopolitical, cultural are two aspects. One thing an atheist can learn is how people are. The dynamics of who a person is combined with religoous beliefs combined with actions etc. It is a very eye opening to who a person is inside. Allows you to see multiple dynamics of them and what they fear, want, etc.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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they teach us to be stupider than usual

Can you elaborate? I think I suspect what you're trying to say but I didn't want to jump to a conclusion without reading your thoughts. Are you saying it can teach atheists to trust blind faith?
 

draon9

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Can you elaborate? I think I suspect what you're trying to say but I didn't want to jump to a conclusion without reading your thoughts. Are you saying it can teach atheists to trust blind faith?

reason why I say it can you teach to you to be stupider because you must look back at ancient history and ask yourself this question, if these stories are false, why do people still talk about it, could there be an origin to some of these legendary stories or mythical creatures, how magic began. how technology began, ask yourself questions or use the internet atheist is a religion too, bunch of stuck up idiots together
 
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