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View Poll Results: Would YOU kill the baby?

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  • I'd kill it/get someone else to kill it

    32 48.48%
  • I would not kill it and risk the possibility of being heard

    34 51.52%
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  1. #91
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Dammit! I forgot to make "choking the chicken" joke.
    How about "the other white meat" joke?

  2. #92
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    How about "the other white meat" joke?
    Babies?

  3. #93
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    Babies?
    Babies can contribute to society like the rest of us.

  4. #94

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    I first became familiar with this when a real life story of people hiding from a patrol during the Korean war was broadcast as part of a documentary in the UK, the mother of the child drowned it in a puddle in order that the group would survive. It was the mother and father who told the story, they both broke down in tears. It was the most heart breaking story of war that I've heard, although Sophies choice and others are probably objectively the same.

    I know this. There is no crime that a man will not commit to save himself. I am probably no different. In fact I know that if I was in a group and they needed me to be that guy and carry that sin or trauma that they could all live I may do it. Although I would seek retaliation and it would be as horrifying and bloody as the killing of the baby.

    In the past in certain situations which where unsafe or risky or where an aggressor was threatening me and others I've been able to shut of my every day self and act in a way to resolve the situation, conscience does exact a penalty but it does not get in the way at the time, I've investigated Zen, forgiveness as a philosophical and spiritual idea, different theories about mindfulness to offset this kind of thing.

    The best depiction I've ever seen of this in literature is actually in the graphic novel "born" which is a kind of genesis of Marvel's The Punisher and depicts Frank Castle's experiences in Vietnam. The skull motif associated with the character is depicted as a kind of inner voice which speaks to Frank, like doing a deal with the devil, telling him that he can "get us out of this" at a point in which Frank's position is being over run, in order to survive Frank concedes to this psychological shadow and goes into a berserker rage. The book finishes with a point that its his family which are the only thing preventing the shadow dominating completely, which I thought made sense as in the Punisher mythos its the murder of his family by mobsters which motivates his Death Wish like punisher campaign of violence.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know this. There is no crime that a man will not commit to save himself. I am probably no different. In fact I know that if I was in a group and they needed me to be that guy and carry that sin or trauma that they could all live I may do it. Although I would seek retaliation and it would be as horrifying and bloody as the killing of the baby.
    The group will not die for an individual. This might as well be international law, because we see it in all times and in all places, through myth and history. There is little a human superorganism will fail to do to survive. Who actually does it hardly relevant, because the level of redundancy that comes with a group is sufficient for at least one, if not several members to take action.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    1 the action contemplated is in itself ethically good or ethically indifferent
    I think the analysis can stop right here. The action is the purposeful taking of innocent human life. It is murder. You can't do it.
    Not so fast. Causing the death of an innocent person is bad. But causing the death of several innocent people is arguably worse. The rational choice is clear. Take the action that will minimize the number of deaths.

    If I don't have principles and things that I'm not willing to do under any circumstances then what makes me better than the nazis?
    Having taboos does not automatically make you a better person. In fact, they can make you less "virtuous". It really depends on the value system.

  7. #97
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    You are a Jewish person inside Nazi occupied France. You are hiding under the floorboards with many others Jewish people, when evil Nazis come in to search houses near by. As you are there, a baby with the jewish hiders starts to cry.


    This baby cannot stop crying, and you know if it continues to cry, you, and everyone under the floor, could possibly be discovered by the nazis and killed. You don't have time to find out if they're going to skip your house or not, and even then, there is still the possibility of them hearing it.

    Do you kill the baby?

    NO CHEATING

    No "muffling his cries, getting it drunk, etc"

    You either kill it, or you don't and risk the possibility of getting everyone else killed.
    Nope. Murder is unexcusable, regardless of circumstance.
    You lose.

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  8. #98
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Nope. Murder is unexcusable, regardless of circumstance.
    What about self defense?

  9. #99
    Another awesome member. Curator's Avatar
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    Id kill it, then force myself to believe I had just killed a chicken, then later break down in a military mental hospital when I remember what I really killed... j/k...

    Actually, I dont think I would, id like to think I could possibly do it to save everyone else, but if actually faced with it, I really dont think I could...I love babies to much... and would rather die than kill the baby...

  10. #100
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Killing the baby means I might also have to kill the baby's mother or father. I'd probably do nothing.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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