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  1. #61
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I forgot; have you ever explained why you see NF/NT that way (and it wasn't exactly "the other way around" as you said NF could be either Choleric or Melancholic.

    I earlier explained why the Supine was a separate temperament: Five Temperaments test!

    All of this is all about the two-factor matrix. For original temperament, it was I/E vs people-task. Interaction Styles directly fits this, so there does not seem to be any dispute there which style is which temperament:

    IST/INJ (Chart the Course) Melancholic
    EST/ENJ (In Charge) Choleric
    ISF/INP (Behind The Scenes) Phlegmatic*
    ESF/ENP (Get Things Going) Sanguine
    "Expressive Behavior": High=E; Low=I
    "Responsive Behavior": High="Informative" (F and/or P); Low="Directive" (T and/or J)

    the conative area is the same temperament matrix, but in another area of personal interaction: leadership and action, instead of social skills. This matrix is overlayed over the other one, so that each of 16 combinations shares a temperament from both matrices. So E/I is no longer the "expressive" factor in this new matrix.
    Keirsey's Cooperative/Pragmatic fits that better, with the Sanguine and Choleric is "pragmatic", (more "expressive" in action), and Phlegmatic and Melancholic as "cooperative'; which is slower to action, trying to work within either the social structure, or maintain harmony. Then, structure vs motive is the other dimension, with Sanguine and Phlegmatic as more "motive" focused (another kind of "people"-focus), and Melancholic and Choleric as Structure-focused (which is more about tasks).

    If NF=Choleric, NT=Phlegmatic, then it would be the Phlegmatic that would share "Structure" focus with the Melancholic. Structure would then represent the conative counterpart to "introversion", since Melancholic and Phlegmatic were both "introverted". Choleric and Sanguine would then share Motive-focus, which would become the conative counterpart to their common "extraversion" (expressiveness). NT would fall into the "low Sublime" category along with SP, which would equate to "pragmatism" which would then be the conative coupterpart to "people-focus", shared by Phlegmatic and Sanguine. Meanwhile, the Choleric and Melancholic would share "cooperative" (which would then equate to Kant's "Sublime" recognition, and the conative counterpart to "task-focus"). But none of this makes sense, now. Choleric is definitely not "cooperative", nor "motive-focused"; and this is perhaps the biggest proof that NF can't be Choleric! For the indirect Control temperaments (eC?wC), what Keirsey basically ended up doing is reversing the "high" scores, and substituting making the Choleric high want(motive)/low express(cooperative), and the Phlegmatic high express (pragmatic)/low want (structure).
    A similar problem results if NF is Melancholic. Melancholic is by all accounts a very "structure" (task)-focused temperament, but NF is Motive (people)-focused. SJ is cooperative, but Choleric is definitely pragmatic.

    Hence the best fit is:
    SJ (Guardian/Stabilizer) Melancholic
    SP (Artisan/Improviser) Sanguine
    NF (Idealist/Catalyst) Phlegmatic*
    NT (Rational/Theorist) Choleric in Control
    "Expressive Behavior": High="Pragmatic" (T and/or P) Low="Cooperative" (F and/or J)
    "Responsive Behavior": High="Focus on Motive"(F or P); Low="Focus on Structure"(T or J)

    * In both matrices, Supine is derived by realizing that Phlegmatic is really moderate in both dimensions (hence why it is a tricky fit for either the "exciteable" NF or the logical NT), and that the true low expressive/high responsive is Supine (which provides the NF with its energy).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  2. #62
    Member katerp's Avatar
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    Choleric - 19
    Phlegmatic - 46
    Melancholy - 67
    Sanguine - 35
    Supine - 56

  3. #63
    Senior Member Silent Stars's Avatar
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    Choleric=33
    Phlegmatic=58
    Melancholic=65
    Sanguine=22
    Supine=67
    Enneagram 9w1 sp/so
    [sigpic][/sigpic]

  4. #64
    nevermore lane777's Avatar
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    Phlegmatic 70
    Supine 54
    Melancholy 53
    Choleric 18
    Sanguine 15
    To die would be an awfully big adventure - Peter Pan

    INFJ ~ 4w5 sp/sx ~ RLOAI ~ Inclusion e/w=1/0 (Melancholy Compulsive) Control: e/w=0/6 (Supine) Affection: e/w=4/0 (Phlegmatic Melancholy)

  5. #65
    your resident asshole
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    From this test, I appear to be most Supine, followed by a tie between Phlegmatic and Melancholy, then Choleric, then Sanguine. Could this by why I have a hard time typing myself?

  6. #66
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    I have always thought all of the temperaments match me under circumstances.

  7. #67
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Self test (spontaneously done, thinking 1-3 seconds per answer)

    Choleric: 47
    Phlegmatic: 35
    Melancholy: 69
    Sanguine: 58
    Supine: 60

    Heh, my initial thinking was correct - Supine Melancholy
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #68
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Supine-Melancholy combinations could probably be either IxFJ. So both of you might be ISFJ. Disney, what type were you wearing before? What's making you think ISTJ now?
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  9. #69
    garbage
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    Well,

    CHOLERIC: 56
    PHLEGMATIC: 52
    MELANCHOLY: 55
    SANGUINE: 43
    SUPINE: 60

    This is pretty much exactly the opposite that I usually score, though I don't really know anything about the classic temperaments. Choleric/Sanguine tends to describe me well.

    I think, in this test, the Choleric and Sanguine traits tend to balance each other--a Choleric is disciplined and somewhat decisive but insensitive toward others, where Sanguine loves to motivate people but is somewhat undisciplined and spontaneous. Here's the breakdown:

    CHOLERIC: 56
    4__Optimistic
    4__Goal Oriented
    4__Self Confident
    3__Activist
    2__Domineering
    2__Aggressive
    5__Leadership Ability
    4__Tenacious
    4__Strong Willed
    2__Hot Tempered
    1__Insensitive
    2__Unsympathetic
    4__Determined
    3__Decisive
    1__Sarcastic
    3__Practical
    4__Outgoing
    4__Self-Sufficient

    PHLEGMATIC: 52
    2__Very Quiet
    1__Pessimistic
    1__Introvert
    4__Not Aggressive
    4__Indecisive
    2__Slow & Lazy
    5__Easy Going
    4__Calm & Cool
    4__Efficient
    4__Dependable
    2__Witty, Dry Humor
    2__Teases
    1__Selfish
    4__Orderly Habits
    3__Stingy
    2__Stubborn
    2__Spectator in life
    5__Works well under pressure

    MELANCHOLY: 55
    4__Deep feeling
    4__Sensitive
    1__Self-Centered
    3__Easily Offended
    4__Faithful Friend
    4__Self-Sacrificing
    1__Likes Behind the Scenes
    2__Suspicious
    5__Introspective
    5__Perfectionist
    4__Harbors Resentment
    4__Creative
    1__Moody
    2__Critical
    4__Indecisive
    1__Pessimistic
    4__Idealistic
    2__Introvert

    SANGUINE: 43
    1__Emotional
    1__Difficulty keeping resolutions
    4__Compassionate
    1__Impractical
    3__Easily Discouraged
    1__Undisciplined
    2__Weak-Willed
    3__Talkative
    3__Enjoyable
    3__Friendly
    4__Restless
    3__Difficulty Concentrating
    2__Lives in present
    1__Egotistical
    2__Impulsive
    1__Difficulty keeping appointments
    4__Optimistic
    4__Outgoing

    SUPINE: 60
    2__Reserved
    4__Gentle
    4__Difficulty saying NO
    4__Suppresses feelings
    4__Caring
    3__Reactionary
    4__Relationship focused
    4__Dependable
    5__Diligent
    3__Harbors Anger
    4__Indecisive
    3__Service oriented
    2__Weak-Willed
    4__Loves tasks
    2__Manipulative
    2__Insecure
    4__Loyal
    2__Giving

  10. #70
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Choleric- 48
    Phlegmatic- 56
    Melancholy- 60
    Sanguine- 46
    Supine- 42
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

    sCueI (primary Inquisition)

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