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  1. #301
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Are you saying that Fi users have a choice of whether or not they let the environment affect their feelings? How is that even possible? Where would your feelings even come from if they weren't spawned from the external environment? Do you just make up feelings based on how you think you should feel?
    Both Fe and Fi are directly impacted by the feelings of others. You as an Fe will feel sad or happy if the person next to you feels sad or happy respectively. Fi will ask himself, does this person really feel sad or happy, should he feel this way, do I really sympathize with him? If yes, then I will feel the way he does. But if not, no. And even if I do sympathize with him, my feelings will be based not directly on his, but on my interpretation of his feelings. This is the difference between the introvert and the extrovert, the introvert interposes his own perceptions between his inner state of mind and the object, whilst you as an extrovert, do not.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #302
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    If I ask someone's honest opinion about something, guess what, I *actually* want to hear their *honest* opinion.

    The thought of receiving, instead, their dishonest, "nice" opinion makes my blood boil and my temperature rise.

    I don't know if it's Fe that's responsible, or something else, but there's a whole lot of PC-infused nonsense that gets espoused these days because we don't want to hurt anyone's feewings.

    Fi, as I experience it is about upholding *actual* fairness and integrity of truth.

    Apparently and luckily for me, my ex was an Fi subscriber because he, like me, would always tell me the truth even at times when hearing said truths utterly hurt my feelings.

    Veritas!!!
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #303
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Um, not if the "tact and respect" that you speak of come at the cost of being fair, and by fair, I do mean honest.

    Not everybody's feelings are valid, far from, in fact.
    Why do you give your subjective sense of right and wrong precedence over other's feelings? Everyone gains if you can understand other's perspectives before making such value judgments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #304
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Apparently and luckily for me, my ex was an Fi subscriber because he, like me, would always tell me the truth even at times when hearing said truths utterly hurt my feelings.

    Veritas!!!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #305
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Both Fe and Fi are directly impacted by the feelings of others. You as an Fe will feel sad or happy if the person next to you feels sad or happy respectively. Fi will ask himself, does this person really feel sad or happy, should he feel this way, do I really sympathize with him? If yes, then I will feel the way he does. But if not, no. And even if I do sympathize with him, my feelings will be based not directly on his, but on my interpretation of his feelings.


    Well I'll be damned, I agree with you here, wholeheartedly.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #306
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I for one use Fe only when I want to get myself something I want from people, unless of course it be a close relationship where my Fe shall be almost entirely subjugated to my Thinking values concerning fairness and clarity. There Fe will be supressed by Ti to the point where it can express nothing but the most earnest of emotive urges, there it shall be fully sincere. Yet when Fe is given free play in its own element, it is usually used as an instrument to attain practical results.
    Damn it, Blue, if you want something from me, just ask for it up front!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    My feelings are dictated by the external environment. If somebody comes into work in a bad mood, then I'll end up in a bad mood. If I see someone sad, then eventually I will feel sad. If I don't talk about my feelings, then I won't feel better. I don't have a choice in the matter. I don't "let" negative external feelings bother me, they just do. That is why Ti is so promising. It allows for some detachment.

    Are you saying that Fi users have a choice of whether or not they let the environment affect their feelings? How is that even possible? Where would your feelings even come from if they weren't spawned from the external environment? Do you just make up feelings based on how you think you should feel?
    It's... I don't know how to explain it. Something will hit you in a certain way, but your moods aren't determined by the others around you. They come from within, they don't bounce and reflect from the people around. The environment affects their feelings, but the people don't. An Fi-type will see an injustice and feel bad about it, knowing somehow internally that something was wrong -- it seems like the way Fe works, they'd have to look outwards to see what they were going to feel about it.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #307
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Both Fe and Fi are directly impacted by the feelings of others. You as an Fe will feel sad or happy if the person next to you feels sad or happy respectively. Fi will ask himself, does this person really feel sad or happy, should he feel this way, do I really sympathize with him? If yes, then I will feel the way he does. But if not, no. And even if I do sympathize with him, my feelings will be based not directly on his, but on my interpretation of his feelings. This is the difference between the introvert and the extrovert, the introvert interposes his own perceptions between his inner state of mind and the object, whilst you as an extrovert, do not.
    Well that is dumb. If that is the case, then Fi users dictate how they feel by their own subjective standards. How can they claim to uphold ideals like honesty and integrity when they are only upholding their own version of those ideals and they don't integrate any other perceptions of those values into their framework? To obtain the most objective idea of a value, one must integrate as many perceptions of that value as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #308
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Why do you give your subjective sense of right and wrong precedence over other's feelings? Everyone gains if you can understand other's perspectives before making such value judgments.
    Grrrrrrr!!!

    That's the whole freakin' point!!!

    Right and wrong are not subjective constructs, feelings, i.e. emotional perceptions, however, are!!!

    A fact remains a fact regardless of how *you* feel about it!!!

    Fi abhors moral relativism.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #309
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Well that is dumb. If that is the case, then Fi users dictate how they feel by their own subjective standards. How can they claim to uphold ideals like honesty and integrity when they are only upholding their own version of those ideals and they don't integrate any other perceptions of those values into their framework? To obtain the most objective idea of a value, one must integrate as many perceptions of that value as possible.
    Think about this. Say an Fi and Fe character see a man publicly hung. Fe will say OUUHH THAT IS cruel because my mother taught me so. An Fi man will feel ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck, how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings, etc? He empathizes directly. How you figure that this way is somehow less ethically wholesome than the earlier described Fe way is beyond me..
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  10. #310
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    It's... I don't know how to explain it. Something will hit you in a certain way, but your moods aren't determined by the others around you. They come from within, they don't bounce and reflect from the people around. The environment affects their feelings, but the people don't. An Fi-type will see an injustice and feel bad about it, knowing somehow internally that something was wrong -- it seems like the way Fe works, they'd have to look outwards to see what they were going to feel about it.
    I just feel. That is what I can't seem to understand is how Fi users aren't the same way.

    I also have a framework. As I've experienced perceptions of various values and ideals over time, I've integrated them into my framework. Once I start feeling something, I compare it to my framework to determine why I feel the way I do and whether or not I'm justified in feeling that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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