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  1. #51
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    No that's actually ESTJs. Ne + Te = NT-like behavior. ESFJs are the NFs of the SJs for the same reason.
    If INTJs are the most NT of NTs, wouldn't it make sense that ISTJs align the closest?

    ESTJs lead with Te.

  2. #52
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    I've heard INTJs tend to project themselves similar to ISTPs in social settings. Similar cases for ISFP-ENFP, INFJ-INTP, ENTJ-ESTP, ESTJ-ENFP, ENTP-INFP. For the ENFP being similar to both ISFP and ESTJ is rather interesting to me. I'd suppose there tends to be modes of moods in the communication realm for them.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakysage View Post
    I've heard INTJs tend to project themselves similar to ISTPs in social settings. Similar cases for ISFP-ENFP, INFJ-INTP, ENTJ-ESTP, ESTJ-ENFP, ENTP-INFP. For the ENFP being similar to both ISFP and ESTJ is rather interesting to me. I'd suppose there tends to be modes of moods in the communication realm for them.
    You know, I've never seen an ENFP project ESTJ. ENTJ, INTJ, ISTJ, yes. Yet even rrrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaallllllly extraverted ENFPs never come off ESTJ to me. Maybe I need to meet more ENFPs in rl... I just get an abundance of IxFxs
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

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  4. #54
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiharu View Post
    You know, I've never seen an ENFP project ESTJ. ENTJ, INTJ, ISTJ, yes. Yet even rrrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaallllllly extraverted ENFPs never come off ESTJ to me. Maybe I need to meet more ENFPs in rl... I just get an abundance of IxFxs
    You should meet a good member of the forums called LittleLinguist. Very interesting person.
    But yes, ENFPs can come off as ESTJs and ESTJs can come off as ENFPs. Only need specific circumstances and mood.

  5. #55
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    If INTJs are the most NT of NTs, wouldn't it make sense that ISTJs align the closest?
    I'm not even sure INTJs are the most NT-ish (I think INTPs are), but no. ISTJs are S-dominant and N-inferior, so it makes no sense for them to appear in any way N-like.
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  6. #56
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not even sure INTJs are the most NT-ish (I think INTPs are), but no. ISTJs are S-dominant and N-inferior, so it makes no sense for them to appear in any way N-like.
    So the fact that they both have dominant introverted perception matters less than an ESTJ's Ne being third place (if it's really third place?)
    I think Pi/Te looks more similar than Te/Pi.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not even sure INTJs are the most NT-ish (I think INTPs are), but no. ISTJs are S-dominant and N-inferior, so it makes no sense for them to appear in any way N-like.
    I kind of think INTPs are the most NT-ish of the NTs as well. Just because of that non-fluffy marble core they have.

    I agree with an earlier post that ENXPs can resemble each other a lot. I think since they both have Ne-dom, it's harder to parse what their secondary trait is.

    To me ENTPs are the um.... "fluffiest" of the NT types...

  8. #58
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    So the fact that they both have dominant introverted perception matters less than an ESTJ's Ne being third place
    Ehm, yeah -- I'm not saying ESTJs look most like INTJs, I'm saying that they look most like intuitive types out of STJs.
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  9. #59
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    I'm not even sure INTJs are the most NT-ish (I think INTPs are), but no. ISTJs are S-dominant and N-inferior, so it makes no sense for them to appear in any way N-like.
    Put inferior functions aside for a moment, and remember how people "appear". People often appear as their extroverted function. So with ISTJs, you often just see Te & get a sense of Pi. Add to that the fact that Si is idiosyncratic (not as "conforming" as people think), and you can get someone who is confused with an INTJ. I've known many an ISTJ who had some weird views, but when it came down to it, anything theoretical or non-realistic was silly to them. Everything about their view was very, well, sensory-focused. A poor grasp of MBTI might easily lead to them typing as INTJ though.

    Also, because of tert-Si in INTPs, ISTJs can sometimes seem like an INTP who has poor Ne (stuck in Ti-Si loop).

    The same can be said for why INTPs seem more NF at times than INTJs. Even though INTJs use tert-Fi, Fi is a very internal process for one (if Fi-dom are often not obvious Feelers, then how much less will you see Fi in the tertiary where it's supporting Pi?), and for two, the INTJ "face" is Te, which seems very rational & scientific, the stereotype of the NT. INTPs have a Ne face, which can seem silly, idealistic, and even nonsensical, all which might seem more NF-ish in its "light-heartedness". I agree that when you get to know these people more intimately, then an INTJ will seem more NFish & an INTP will seem more the "true NT". Same with ISTJs - they become pictures of the SJ when you get to know them & "see" their inner thought process exposed a bit, but until then, sometimes you just see an oddball using Te.

    As for ESTJs, they are using obvious Te, and Si is in aid of it, making it more visible than Si in an ISTJ. It's the same reason EFPs seem warmer than IFPs - Fi is more visible when supporting the dom E function than in the dominant position. So ESTJs are easier to detect as Sensors.
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  10. #60
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Extrovert functions aren't really more externally displayed than introvert functions; they're just externally sourced. Fi can very easily be seen in righteous indignation or anger or any sort of conviction-fueled emotional burst, for example. Likewise I've not ever really seen INTPs to really look NF-like, unless you're counting NTR crap like emoness or cuddliness as F (though it'd be quite understandable for somebody to mistype any T type -- not just Fe types -- for an F based on it if they don't know enough of the theory).
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