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  1. #91
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwakar View Post
    JJJ, I think it is more your repeated voical of your opinion on the topic than your literal text that is furthering the opinion that you generally think of crying as manipulation.
    I'm only repeatedly clarifying my position because people are repeatedly misinterpreting my position.

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    I'm only repeatedly clarifying my position because people are repeatedly misinterpreting my position.
    I understand that. Hopefully the others do too now.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  3. #93
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    The few women I've known well enough to have a sense of their character who have fake-cried to get out of speeding tickets have not been manipulative people in general. Most of the women who have related similar anecdotes haven't been familiar enough to me to have an accurate read of their characters. And no, I doubt they were lying to impress me.
    IMO, a woman who is willing to manipulate to get out of things like a speeding ticket has a yellow flag marked on her that makes me look out. Doing that just invites people to question their expression of feelings in other circumstances.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  4. #94
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    IMO, a woman who is willing to manipulate to get out of things like a speeding ticket has a yellow flag marked on her that makes me look out. Doing that just invites people to question their expression of feelings in other circumstances.
    Maybe it's the convict heritage of my nation speaking, but I never held that against them. Personally I don't think manipulating traffic cops should count as much of a yellow flag.

  5. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Maybe it's the convict heritage of my nation speaking, but I never held that against them.
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  6. #96
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Ah! Interesting... *ponders*. As an old friend, you've been in tears talking to me about something I was going through, and I remember (at first) thinking -while being quite touched - that it was due to emotional fragility, and then realising after that I needed to reevaluate downwards what tears mean to you vs tears for me (I have shed tears, i think, once in the last three years so for me it is a "big deal"). If my perspective is helpful, I think it helps to have you explain what you have done in this thread, and that ensure that someone like your bf recognises the tears for what they mean for you. It's even helped me a year or so after the event, to read it, so I am sure when it is contemporary it will do so
    Really, I think he intellectually understands what is happening when I cry, but a visceral part of him responds as if he has injured me profoundly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    Write a letter. This does two things: 1) it takes crying out of the realm of possibility; 2) it gets your thoughts and feelings out and makes things clearer to you.
    Yeah. This is what my impulse is. I have ALWAYS written epic letters, and then a friend of mine said that I was the letter-writingest woman he'd ever met, and that I should try to have more face-to-face conversations. And I took that advice, and it has resulted in increased tears (but valuable real-time conversations and discussions of initial emotional responses).
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  7. #97
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Again, tell me where I said a large percentage of women do this?
    On numerous occasions in the thread, you've said things along the lines of "More women manipulate through crying than you THINK. You're underestimating!" So, by "a large percentage", I meant a large percentage COMPARATIVELY speaking - a larger percentage than what all the women on this thread think. (It could even be 10% of women. But nonetheless, 10% is MUCH higher than what I might have estimated.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JivinJeffJones View Post
    Maybe it's the convict heritage of my nation speaking, but I never held that against them. Personally I don't think manipulating traffic cops should count as much of a yellow flag.
    Ah, HERE we go! Connotation miscommunication! See, when I meet people who are shameless manipulators, I automatically dislike them. Right away, I don't want to speak to them anymore. I want my friends to be HONEST. I don't want to be duped. I just can't trust people who do that. I... can't STAND it. That's why I reacted so strongly. You were just trying to make your point, no big deal, but I felt like it was a big deal because <ESTJmoment>IT'S LIKE MORALITY IS DYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!</ESTJmoment>

    So yeah. I'm done now. Sorry about all that.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  8. #98
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    He's not lumping all women together; he's trying to explain why a male might have these suspicions until experience with any specific girl demonstrates otherwise.

    That's what lumping women together is.....assuming that all future women you deal with are going to be the same as the ones in the past instead of dealing with them as unique individuals.

    To me, the insistence that "some" women and "more than we think" use crying as a manipulation is a way of invalidating the emotions of a woman so as to shirk any responsibility in producing that effect. These men don't want to feel "bad" when women cry, so they find it easier to write it off as manipulation.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  9. #99
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanveane View Post
    I know quite a few women who resort to fake crying to avoid consequences or to get their own way. (I stopped counting at 6.) I've seen them do it so many times and then when they get their way the sun comes out again. Bleh.

    It's usually directed at their partners/families/friends but one of these women had some trouble getting some permissions for her business and told her business partner not to worry as she would go to the local authority and cry to make things happen.
    Those are also the women who wheedle and attempt to curry favor with falsely high-pitched voices. Act like children and get treated like children.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #100
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    That's what lumping women together is.....assuming that all future women you deal with are going to be the same as the ones in the past instead of dealing with them as unique individuals.
    Guarding against the possibility is not the same as assuming the "worst" (I don't really consider the exaggeration of genuine emotion as a reflexive defense mechanism to be indicative of some sort of unusual or heinous moral defect, so I must assume you are referring to more cold-blooded, systematic and habitual manipulation), and is certainly not the same as dealing with women as anything less than unique individuals.

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