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Thread: 4 versus sx 5

  1. #1
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Default 4 versus sx 5

    This is something that comes up really often for me. Sometimes I can't tell the difference between 4w5 and 5w4 until I get closer to a person (they usually turn out to be 4s).

    But how can you tell them apart without being close? And if a 5w4 is a sexual subtype, can it be (almost) exactly like a 4?

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    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    This is something that comes up really often for me. Sometimes I can't tell the difference between 4w5 and 5w4 until I get closer to a person (they usually turn out to be 4s).

    But how can you tell them apart without being close? And if a 5w4 is a sexual subtype, can it be (almost) exactly like a 4?
    Sexual 5's look like Scully from the X-Files, and Sx fours look like really flamboyant type 8's. Sexual 4's look like Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh.

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    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    I mistyped at SX 5w4 at one point. For a while, thinking that I mistyped at 5 was like "FACEPALM" but now, after letting many things settle in, I realize it really wasn't that ridiculous a mistype. I still have my "am I really a 5?" moments.

    Once I came to PerC - getting out of the textbooks and finding what people were really like - then I mistyped at SX8. A lot of people on PerC suggested both 4 and 8 to me, as well as 7, but type 8 seemed most "me" since I have this voracious hunger about me. Once I learned the difference between lust and hunger, and how that voracious appetite for passion applies to sexual 4…. I mean.. this is making a long, complicated story short, but I .. am a 4.

    It's like it isn't enough to just be close to someone. I savor every last corner of his dreams, his heart. At my most unhealthy, I need to become him or else I'm not close enough.

    My ex is an SX-5 and one day he said to me, while we were messing around, "You have strong mirror neurons." haha. Apparently I was beyond turned on - just from turning HIM on. While I enjoy physical pleasure as much as the next person, the thing that really gets me off, metaphorically and physically, is when my partner is turned on. This might not have anything to do with enneagram, but for me, it's "yet another" example of introjection. I'm actually more healthy, in a better place psychologically, if the thing that turns me on the most, is something that I like, some expression of myself. But deep down, I mirror everything, down to his appetite.

    4s identify with feelings, and feelings are ever-changing. I do have a strong sense of "who I am" but my feelings have formed that "sense of self" since i was a child, and in very deep passionate obsessions, those feelings can begin to over-ride previous notions of who I am, causing me to question everything I previously believed about myself. Deep passionate obsessions are personal transformation.

    My 5w4 Sx/Sp ex is transformed by passionate attachments too, but it's more about how that person affects his mind and his way of understanding himself and the world. HE doesn't mirror the partner, but rather, seeks to figure them out, to understand them thoroughly. he doesn't re-shape his sense of identity, but rather, adds to his understanding of himself.

    I mirror something more visceral. "Who he is." I can do this, in a visceral emotional way. I still do find myself loving a good mind-maze or trying to understand someone, but the basic, deep desire is feel his feelings, dream his dreams. My sx-5 ex was more… understanding my psychological underpinnings. It's not that different in action, as I am after the underpinnings too.. but I feel lost and disconnected if I can't relate to someone's feelings while he might feel lost and disconnected if he can't understand why something happened.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
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  4. #4
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Sexual 4's look like Pegasus from Yu-Gi-Oh.
    D:

  5. #5
    brainheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Sx fours look like really flamboyant type 8's
    Maybe if they're ENFP sx/so 478s. Otherwise, no.

    @Noon, I thought I might be a sexual 5w4 for awhile. It has to do with those Naranjo subtype descriptions. Also, the whole idea of confiding in a special someone/ compartmentalizing that relationship- yes, I relate to that. But when you get to the core of the type, I'm so stinking four it's crazy.

    So how do you tell them apart? Fives are more detached/cooler. They are less emotional externally and self dramatizing/ self revealing. Less personal and more analytical. There's way more of a withholding component than there is with a 4w5. And they will also seem less empathetic/sensitive.

    Telling the difference can be tricky at times, though. I know with certain people I put on five armor when I'm feeling vulnerable and don't want to share.

  6. #6
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Ugh, ever confused. It's like what I am is the exact blend between 4w5 and 5w4 (can I please just be 4=5?). Even what @Animal wrote about herself compared to her ex, I am both. I want my feelings to merge with the other person's, but I also get really caught up in understanding the why behind the behaviors of those I'm close to.

    I relate to both sides of @brainheart's thoughts about the difference too. The "five armor" thing, yes. I've also noticed that the only people who peg me as a 5 are usually sickening soft hearted, which makes me armor up (I'm pretty ashamed of my soft heart and don't want to be like them).

    I always settle on the 4 side because of my F leaning (if ever so slight), and how volatile I can be.
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    Member thistlechaser's Avatar
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    It comes doen to this--does the person seem to think through their feelings more, or do they seem to have deep, intimate connections with facts and ideas more? Both being on the cusp of thinking and feeling, they cross the functions of feeling and thinking

  8. #8
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Ugh, ever confused. It's like what I am is the exact blend between 4w5 and 5w4 (can I please just be 4=5?). Even what @Animal wrote about herself compared to her ex, I am both. I want my feelings to merge with the other person's, but I also get really caught up in understanding the why behind the behaviors of those I'm close to.
    Oh just to be clear, this is VERY VERY important - crucial - even compulsive to me as well. I guess I was just comparing myself to him in terms of DEEPER compulsion.

    Also you're 5 fixed and I'm 7 fixed - I know what this means in terms of how I process things mentally, but right now I'm having trouble putting it into words...
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

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    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brainheart View Post
    Maybe if they're ENFP sx/so 478s. Otherwise, no.
    Yeah this is true - I'm ENFP 487, although it appears after further consideration that I am an sx/sp type. But I definitely fit the sx4 "more 8 than an 8" stereotype.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

  10. #10
    Blood of the Exile Animal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    Ugh, ever confused. It's like what I am is the exact blend between 4w5 and 5w4 (can I please just be 4=5?). Even what @Animal wrote about herself compared to her ex, I am both. I want my feelings to merge with the other person's, but I also get really caught up in understanding the why behind the behaviors of those I'm close to.

    I relate to both sides of @brainheart's thoughts about the difference too. The "five armor" thing, yes. I've also noticed that the only people who peg me as a 5 are usually sickening soft hearted, which makes me armor up (I'm pretty ashamed of my soft heart and don't want to be like them).

    I always settle on the 4 side because of my F leaning (if ever so slight), and how volatile I can be.
    I just thought this over a bit more.

    I definitely try to understand what he's thinking and how he's feeling. Just as you describe.

    It's just that my ex did this from a more removed perspective. Like he tried to understand them from outside, rather than "put himself in their shoes," become them, mentally.

    It's like he was watching his understanding of me from outside, and i was understanding him by putting myself in his shoes compulsively.

    Anyone who knows me irl would describe me as objective, calm and so forth. When I say "putting myself in his shoes" it doesnt mean I lose my objectivity. I have to figure out what differentiates us, and the commonalities, so that gives me a map to understanding.

    My understanding however, my "map" of me and him, is rooted in sense of self. His understanding is rooted outside self, "getting self out of the way."

    Outside of that, we're quite similar in this respect. And I'm not even 5 fixed nor is he 4 fixed.
    Art is the blood of the Exile
    4w3 6w7 8w9 ~ Sx/Sp ~ ISTP ~ LSI-Se

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