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Thread: Disgusted

  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    I just finished watching Smash, which is now off the air at the end of second season. It was always an interesting show in the "meta" qualities, since it's basically about a show in which they're creating a show, and the second season had two shows in a show, with mostly original music and book. It was unfortunate that the awesome cattiness of season 2 became tamer between Ivy and Karen, and any bits of similar drama just came off as needlessly whiny and bitchy, and the way characters were fickle, bouncing from niceness to unnecessary drama, was just annoying. Jimmy in particular, I wanted to punt off the Brooklyn Bridge. So it was unfortunate it lost its way a bit (and some of its audience), as it was an interesting idea and I liked the characters... and it's always a joy to see Anjelica Huston.

    Maybe next season they could have done a zombie musical.


    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    1. Star Trek Voyager: As it went on it became more and more Pollyanna, but that's not necessarily anything to do with what I'm writing about here. The problem was with 7 of 9, and her utterly outrageous costume. Frankly it is insulting to the show and to me, the viewer, to imagine that anyone would see that kind of outfit as appropriate. It screams cheap use of tits and ass to gain attention. I lost some respect for the show because of this. Don't get me wrong - Jeri Ryan is insanely beautiful, but good god, if I wanted to get a hard-on I'd watch some porn.
    Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be BORG porn.
    You can't spell "assimilated" without "ass" and a "lat" anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    I haven't been watching much aside from The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones.

    I've not read the comics, but it seems like the cards could be dealt both ways for The Walking Dead at this point, now that a huge chunk of significant characters have been cropped. We're left with many of the most likable, but without some jackasses to compare them to, they're not worth watching. The most obvious direction they could take with this is to throw the characters into more high-pressure, life or death situations with ZOMBIES. But I don't expect that to happen because they couldn't have taken a more contrary direction through last couple of seasons.
    I haven't read much of the comics, nor am I a fan of the comic -- I think the TV show has much more "drama" in the meaningful sense and knows how to tell a better dramatic story.

    However, the death rate has been counterproductive, Season 3 dragged in spots because of the prolonged pissing match with Woodbury (heck, Season 2 dragged because they were at the farm), and some of the deaths just seemed strategically stupid in the dramatic sense. It doesn't help they keep swapping out the lead writer/story scripter every season.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    What I find disgusting about tv shows is that a lot of the time I feel manipulated. The characters get 'manhandled' to fit the plot, provide the necessary drama point, etc., and that's when I feel really cheated, like how the writers have no respect for their characters and think the audience is too stupid to notice or something.
    Yeah, that's how I felt a little bit with Smash in Season 2. At least the characters doing it were already established as fickle or extreme, but there were definite, regular moments where it was like living in a house of teenage girls and fully expecting any possible misunderstanding or misinterpretation or moment of insecurity to result in some dramatic scene... OR for someone to decide suddenly to be mature and make nice, to keep the story from breaking down. i.e., contrivance on the writers' parts.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    meh, it's tv some's good some's bad
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #13
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    Not everyone has to be respectable. I mean yeah, there do have to be some bad guys. It's different when every single character is a piece of shit. Really kinda spoils things.
    There are bad guys on TWD (Shane, the Governor) but everybody else is still pretty flawed. Rick almost sacrificed Michonne. I'm just not sure why this show gets your seal of approval but everybody on Battlestar Galactica is crap. I don't really understand your schema.

    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    As for Breaking Bad, that's complicated. What I like about Walt is that he has huge balls (no homo).
    He didn't have huge balls in the beginning, but I found him much more relatable then and I think most people do. The idea behind Breaking Bad is to take a completely sympathetic character (first season Walt) and systematically strip the audience of the ability to sympathize/identify with that character. He has become Scarface, wholly corrupt. He is a piece of shit now. There's very little redeeming about him anymore.

    On the other hand I didn't think the characters in Battlestar Galactica that you describe as pieces of shit were really WHOLLY pieces of shit like Walt is now. Kara Thrace was deeply, deeply flawed, no doubt- but she had a moral center and tried to do the right thing. She's one of my favorite fictional characters, actually.

  4. #14
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    A response in video, because i can mofo's
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #15
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post




    I haven't read much of the comics, nor am I a fan of the comic -- I think the TV show has much more "drama" in the meaningful sense and knows how to tell a better dramatic story.

    However, the death rate has been counterproductive, Season 3 dragged in spots because of the prolonged pissing match with Woodbury (heck, Season 2 dragged because they were at the farm), and some of the deaths just seemed strategically stupid in the dramatic sense. It doesn't help they keep swapping out the lead writer/story scripter every season.


    Agreed.

    One in particular, I think, was Merle's. They built up so much tension with his absence and then just turned him into a wildcard with no motives. . . albeit an interesting wildcard.

  6. #16
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Agreed.

    One in particular, I think, was Merle's. They built up so much tension with his absence and then just turned him into a wildcard with no motives. . . albeit an interesting wildcard.
    Hmmm. I didn't mind Merle as much, I was thinking of others -- I think he could have been used better, but he's not one of the biggest mistakes. But TWD seems to have a track record for nailing some episodes, then blowing the important ones (namely, the mid and end season cliffhangers of Season 3).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    So you don't mind characters who do horrible things as long as they don't dress revealingly, have promiscuous sex, or cry?
    Basically, because those horrible things often drive the plotline, while the revealing dress and promiscuity are usually gratuitous and distracting, unless a central element of a specific character. A show in which everyone is pleasant and helpful would be very boring.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Basically, because those horrible things often drive the plotline, while the revealing dress and promiscuity are usually gratuitous and distracting, unless a central element of a specific character. A show in which everyone is pleasant and helpful would be very boring.
    Well, I don't disagree with you. I don't have to like characters to enjoy shows, though, and I wonder why this principle doesn't apply to some of the shows zago said he was disgusted with in the OP. Kara Thrace's out-of-control drinking and sexuality WERE central elements of her character on Battlestar Galactica.

  9. #19
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well, I don't disagree with you. I don't have to like characters to enjoy shows, though, and I wonder why this principle doesn't apply to some of the shows zago said he was disgusted with in the OP. Kara Thrace's out-of-control drinking and sexuality WERE central elements of her character on Battlestar Galactica.
    \
    I haven't seen any of the shows people have mentioned so far, except for ST-Voyager, so I can't comment on specific characters other than to agree on 7of9's costume. One thing I personally hate is when a complex, engaging plotline is derailed to show us what the main character is doing in bed with his/her partner, again, assuming that is not plot related. This sort of distraction is not unique to TV and film; I used to get fed up with the same thing reading spy novels.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #20
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    One strange thing is that It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is my favorite show in a long time. It is filled with depravity, but I think the difference is that the characters are supposed to be pathetic, there isn't any emo garbage (it doesn't take itself seriously at all), and the characters tend to get exactly what they've got coming. Their manipulative schemes always wind up humiliating them in total proportion to what they deserve.

    Examples:
    Dennis and Dee try to scam the welfare system ... they wind up addicted to crack
    Charlie concocts a scheme to bang the waitress ... the scheme takes an unexpected turn and she bangs Frank
    Dee tries to claim a nonexistent dependent ... she gets audited, tries to have a fake funeral, gets chili powder blown into her eyes, funeral backfires worse than the original situation by far

    I mean, every episode is like this, and they are all hilarious. Love that show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    There are bad guys on TWD (Shane, the Governor) but everybody else is still pretty flawed. Rick almost sacrificed Michonne. I'm just not sure why this show gets your seal of approval but everybody on Battlestar Galactica is crap. I don't really understand your schema.
    Rick agonizes over decisions and has a strong conscience. If it were Laura Roslin, for example, she would have killed Michonne immediately because she "had a vision" or "an odd feeling" and she would have done it with a proud look on her face. I really hate that lady lol. Plus, it is just a matter of sheer volume. OK, so Rick has a couple pretty understandable slip ups. I'm sure we all would. In the end I would call him a strong, trustworthy person. Not so much for many characters on Battlestar. I'm not saying Battlestar was completely depraved, but the emo stuff just gets old after a while. The comparison to the crew of the Pegasus was pretty striking. Clearly Galactica tended to be a more compassionate ship, despite all its flaws.

    He didn't have huge balls in the beginning, but I found him much more relatable then and I think most people do. The idea behind Breaking Bad is to take a completely sympathetic character (first season Walt) and systematically strip the audience of the ability to sympathize/identify with that character. He has become Scarface, wholly corrupt. He is a piece of shit now. There's very little redeeming about him anymore.

    On the other hand I didn't think the characters in Battlestar Galactica that you describe as pieces of shit were really WHOLLY pieces of shit like Walt is now. Kara Thrace was deeply, deeply flawed, no doubt- but she had a moral center and tried to do the right thing. She's one of my favorite fictional characters, actually.
    I actually thought about mentioning Walt in the beginning of the series as opposed to how he is now, but wanted to keep it simple (hence why I said it was complicated lol). It's interesting, though. Walt was this genius who seemed to be cursed in life, deprived of his ability to express his potential and letting himself be ruled by bosses and petty students and his boring and ordinary family life (apparently he is no longer intimate with his wife, for one thing). It had to kill him over the years seeing himself age into a mediocre, sweater-wearing high school teacher who worked a second job at a car wash. There was a giant within, suppressed.

    To top it all off, he gets cancer... how realistic, no? At this point in his life, I'd frankly have to agree with Walt if he felt betrayed or abandoned by god. He missed out on a billion-dollar opportunity that would have allowed him self-actualization, he deals with bratty children by day and then watches them bully his son, who has cerebral palsy - why such senselessness? And now, the twist of the knife, lung cancer, having never smoked a single cigarette.

    So, however terrible becoming a meth dealer is, I can understand why he feels he doesn't owe society or god anything. In fact, at the beginning, I had a faint sense of scorn for Walt for at times retaining that sense of guilt and remorse. I truly feel that the universe was unfair, even cruel, to Walt and that he really had no choice but to confront it and stop playing by its supposed rules, which had only ever given him senseless suffering in life. So, for that, I can still relate to Walt all the way up until now. The worst thing he ever did was poisoning that child, but I am under the impression that he knew the child would not die, and this enabled him to kill Gus and save not only his family, but Hank's as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Basically, because those horrible things often drive the plotline, while the revealing dress and promiscuity are usually gratuitous and distracting, unless a central element of a specific character. A show in which everyone is pleasant and helpful would be very boring.
    I agree - gratuitous is the key word. It's a cheap and insulting way to get people's attention, as if we are so stupid that we can be kept on the edges of our seats when things get boring because some attractive female has sex. Plot's weak? Ah, just throw in a scene where you almost see a nipple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Well, I don't disagree with you. I don't have to like characters to enjoy shows, though, and I wonder why this principle doesn't apply to some of the shows zago said he was disgusted with in the OP. Kara Thrace's out-of-control drinking and sexuality WERE central elements of her character on Battlestar Galactica.
    As for Thrace, she was one of my favorite characters until she had sex with Baltar. At first, she was the rebel who ALWAYS held people accountable for their hypocrisy and flimsiness, fearing no consequence. I admired that. I found it to be completely out of character and despicable that she would screw a rat like Baltar. Up until that point, I thought she looked down on Baltar - and apparently, she still did ('cause she left him cold), but that didn't stop her from opening her legs. Wow, ya know? Have some dignity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    \
    I haven't seen any of the shows people have mentioned so far, except for ST-Voyager, so I can't comment on specific characters other than to agree on 7of9's costume. One thing I personally hate is when a complex, engaging plotline is derailed to show us what the main character is doing in bed with his/her partner, again, assuming that is not plot related. This sort of distraction is not unique to TV and film; I used to get fed up with the same thing reading spy novels.
    Again, totally agree. When I was a teenager, I loved sex scenes. Apparently, most TV shows and movies are designed for teenage level minds, 'cause now it's just insulting. Oh, we get to see this character having sex for no apparent reason... that doesn't insult my intelligence at all!

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