[MBTI General] Why are ISFP's so critical?

[ChocolateMoose123]

[MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION]

I would tell her that you were hurt. Give her a chance to apologize or explain where she was coming from. It could be a miscommunication between intention and what was inferred.

If she is your friend why not give her the benefit of the doubt?

If she isn't sympathetic at that point, tell her to kick rocks.

 

[Thalassa]

I wasn't going to reply to this...but it so unabashedly accuses the ISFP type while you claim to be "best friends" with this person...it honestly seems a bit odd for women in their 50s. I'm kind of in agreement with [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION].

I'm going to explain why.

1. At 50 years old, it's still perfectly understandable to need physical attraction in a romantic relationship. Asking but what if he's 94 seems like an absurd case of begging the question...you're not 94, and it's unlikely that people still middle aged and enjoying sex, possibly physically fit and active, should be grilled on how they would love an elderly partner 40+ years older than themselves. I'm all for reasonable age difference. ..but seriously? Is your friend really "shallow and vain" because she needs to feel a spark? People are attracted to different things. Including people with disabilities, small facial scars, or other imperfections. A person can have flaws and still be fit and attractive.

2) So my second point is that maybe your friend felt judged and criticized by you first? Were you implying she was beneath you or that she was morally wanting for simply wanting physical chemistry in a relationship?

3) Which three, could lead to her feeling defensive and having a sharper tone with you.

4) But why would you ask something like that anyway if you didn't want an honest answer? Were you fishing for compliments? Did your friends sex life make you feel insecure through no fault of her own? Are you a man, or a lesbian? What do you care of what she thinks of your physical beauty? And since you only care about inner beauty, it seems more than a tad hypocritical for you to react so strongly to a close friend admitting she notices your scars.

I'm not telling you who to be friends with. Your values are your own, and you have every right to feel hurt if you want or end the friendship.

But overall I think you actually started it, and I'm curious as to whether your friend is as vain as you say, or if she simply needs physical chemistry in a relationship and was a bit overly honest with you about your scars since she felt like you were judging her.

 

[Mademoiselle]

ISFPs are righteous and too good to be distracted which most common NF issues are derived from,
They don't normally set goals and try to reach it, they put don't put an idea in their head and work for/await the opportunity to make a choice. They simply direct every upcomming reaction only towards a direction, which allows them to actually reach something.
That makes them less able to dram big, but they're realistic who can achieve things in the required way knowing and doing what it takes regardless of their situation.

Now it's very clear why they're critical.
They just know how what you're doing is not leading you to what you're saying.
Even as an ENTJ, I consider my younger brother's comments, even though I know he's not capable of seeing my visions -What's possible- or soemtimes appreciate it -he has a different life style-, still, it's very good having them as a navigator, tracker, risk calculator.

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I just am.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

We just don't give a rat's ass about the superficial crap.

It matters, but I rather not have conversations and friendships based on being in a competition over them. I had a friend like that. She'd always be interjecting stuff like "I have a really nice engagement ring." Oh? How interesting. lol Bitch, you live less than 5 mins from my house. If you were that much better, you wouldn't be slumming it with me. Go fuck yourself and read a book too or the internet or whatever. haha

I do think it's type related to some extent.

 

[Hetaira]

[MENTION=26035]Hetaira[/MENTION]? Why did you asked your friend that?

My ISFP best friend was going on and on about still being in love with a past ESTJ lover who was a hard core white collar criminal. She was stating that she HAS to have an attractive boyfriend and that she could "overlook" his character if he was attractive. I was trying to "make a point" and get her to see that appearances are not nearly as important as character. Thus my question to her, "When you look at me, do you see my scars or me?"

She did realize she screwed up and has really tried hard to apologize, except for no real words of apology. She did state that she realizes she can be very superficial at times and perhaps she needs to grow in the area of looking past appearances. I just listened. I had planned to tell her F-off and send her to the abyss, however I realized that she is in my life for a reason. We are all growing in different areas and she is maturing in the area of learning the importance of character.

I was raised with the precept "Pretty is as pretty does."

I was able to move past my own feelings and realize that I really am okay with me...but when people are superficial the issue is theirs and not mine. My issue is how I react.

 

[Hetaira]

I wasn't going to reply to this...but it so unabashedly accuses the ISFP type while you claim to be "best friends" with this person...it honestly seems a bit odd for women in their 50s. I'm kind of in agreement with [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION].

I'm going to explain why.

1. At 50 years old, it's still perfectly understandable to need physical attraction in a romantic relationship. Asking but what if he's 94 seems like an absurd case of begging the question...you're not 94, and it's unlikely that people still middle aged and enjoying sex, possibly physically fit and active, should be grilled on how they would love an elderly partner 40+ years older than themselves. I'm all for reasonable age difference. ..but seriously? Is your friend really "shallow and vain" because she needs to feel a spark? People are attracted to different things. Including people with disabilities, small facial scars, or other imperfections. A person can have flaws and still be fit and attractive.

2) So my second point is that maybe your friend felt judged and criticized by you first? Were you implying she was beneath you or that she was morally wanting for simply wanting physical chemistry in a relationship?

3) Which three, could lead to her feeling defensive and having a sharper tone with you.

4) But why would you ask something like that anyway if you didn't want an honest answer? Were you fishing for compliments? Did your friends sex life make you feel insecure through no fault of her own? Are you a man, or a lesbian? What do you care of what she thinks of your physical beauty? And since you only care about inner beauty, it seems more than a tad hypocritical for you to react so strongly to a close friend admitting she notices your scars.

I'm not telling you who to be friends with. Your values are your own, and you have every right to feel hurt if you want or end the friendship.

But overall I think you actually started it, and I'm curious as to whether your friend is as vain as you say, or if she simply needs physical chemistry in a relationship and was a bit overly honest with you about your scars since she felt like you were judging her.

My ISFP friend goes on numerous dates. However they rarely call her back or ask for a second date. She has mentioned to me on several occasions, "how do you get men to keep coming back? Who knows? My jokes maybe? LOL! I feel that it is because I am very laid back and easy going. She wants to have a rich attractive man who can give her the "lifestyle" she craves. I do not get what "lifestyle" means. We both are financially stable, but I am very content with my life and don't feel the need to "jetset" or "be seen" at parties, etc. I would much rather take the back seat or be a wallflower at social events.

Please see the post where I replied as to "why" I asked her that. I was attempting to help her see there is more to life than just "appearances."

The man I am currently seeing is 59, attractive, financially stable, great in bed and has high levels of integrity.

He originally asked her out 2 years ago, but she rejected him because he wasn't "attractive enough" for her. He is a doll in my eyes.

He loves me and that is good enough for me.

 

[Norrsken]

My ISFP best friend was going on and on about still being in love with a past ESTJ lover who was a hard core white collar criminal. She was stating that she HAS to have an attractive boyfriend and that she could "overlook" his character if he was attractive. I was trying to "make a point" and get her to see that appearances are not nearly as important as character. Thus my question to her, "When you look at me, do you see my scars or me?"

She did realize she screwed up and has really tried hard to apologize, except for no real words of apology. She did state that she realizes she can be very superficial at times and perhaps she needs to grow in the area of looking past appearances. I just listened. I had planned to tell her F-off and send her to the abyss, however I realized that she is in my life for a reason. We are all growing in different areas and she is maturing in the area of learning the importance of character.

I was raised with the precept "Pretty is as pretty does."

I was able to move past my own feelings and realize that I really am okay with me...but when people are superficial the issue is theirs and not mine. My issue is how I react.

I understand. Truthfully, I think maybe you and your best friend have very different ideas as to what constitutes personal happiness and values, so maybe it was for the best that you two ended the platonic relationship with one another. Sensors are, well, at the risk of sounding elementary, very sensual people and they care a lot for beauty and the miniscule details that surrounds it. Intuitive people such as yourself could care less about it, or if you do think of beauty, you seek for the underlying message for what it means to be beautiful, if that makes sense.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I am an INFP and my best friend is an ISFP. We are both in our early 50's.

Both of us love to laugh and have a great time together.

Recently, we had a serious conversation, and I went away with my feelings crushed.

I have two facial scars that 90% of people say they never notice. However, my ISFP friend was telling me she HAS to date an attractive man even if his character is not the best. I asked her when she looked at me did she notice my facial scars or just see me? I was hoping she would see the heart of a person as more important than the shell.

She replied, "Every time I look at your face I see your facial scars. I am so sorry they have affected your beauty." WTH???? Damn Se!

I am no model, but how could she be so cruel?

She judges everyone by their status, their appearances, their possessions, etc.

I am beginning to feel our friendship has come to an end. She appears to me now to be the most vain, shallow, pitiful woman I have ever met in real life.

Hmm.

This reveals a few things.

1.) You are not as ok with your facial scars as you thought you were, or it wouldn't have had such an emotional impact on you. for that.

2.) The comment about "affecting your beauty" was intended to be what I would call a "power comment" - meaning, it had the potentially intended effect of striking a target and elevating her value / beauty over yours. yes, Fi dominant folks can and do say things in a less than politically correct way, but to me there's something more to the comment, meant to kind of hierarchically establish who's the better looking between you. She no doubt feels that it's her, but ...

3.) The thing is, this comes from a place in her that's about her own inner insecurities. Saying something that piques yours is a way to add salve to her own woundedness in this area and try to help heal herself kind of at your expense. Perhaps she wonders, "If I am so attractive, why can I not hold a man? Look at Hetaira, she's not as flawless as myself, but she's got guys. What is wrong with me?" Well, as you've pointed out, it's a lack of seeing other qualities as having value too. Perhaps even far more value than she has previously assigned.

4.) So you ask yourself, do I want to be friends with someone who is willing to push my buttons in order to help frame her own experience as having qualitative value over mine? Well, as you point out in your last post, she is in your life for a reason. Perhaps the reason is for her to be reminded of values that exceed the physical realm and awaken in maturity here. Perhaps it is for you to realize that looks matter more to you than you thought and that this is a place of inner examination that may bear fruit in how you treasure yourself. We are all human and growing, at every point, 20 or 50 or 94.

5.) Which leads to forgiveness. Yes, she might have meant to hit a button, and that was unkind. An apology could be graciously accepted, and I hope in some fashion it's already been offered. You too can forgive her for that particular frailty. What would help your friend feel like she has something more to offer than how she looks? What would help you both learn and keep growing? What would help you not feel as affected by external judgements, being at peace with yourself here? Since there's a mutuality, these would be questions I would look at in maintaining the friendship connection.

Hope it all works out between you.

 

[1487610420]

I understand. Truthfully, I think maybe you and your best friend have very different ideas as to what constitutes personal happiness and values, so maybe it was for the best that you two ended the platonic relationship with one another. Sensors are, well, at the risk of sounding elementary, very sensual people and they care a lot for beauty and the miniscule details that surrounds it. Intuitive people such as yourself could care less about it, or if you do think of beauty, you seek for the underlying message for what it means to be beautiful, if that makes sense.

You need to wipe that computer screen

 

[Hetaira]

Hmm.

This reveals a few things.

1.) You are not as ok with your facial scars as you thought you were, or it wouldn't have had such an emotional impact on you. for that.

2.) The comment about "affecting your beauty" was intended to be what I would call a "power comment" - meaning, it had the potentially intended effect of striking a target and elevating her value / beauty over yours. yes, Fi dominant folks can and do say things in a less than politically correct way, but to me there's something more to the comment, meant to kind of hierarchically establish who's the better looking between you. She no doubt feels that it's her, but ...

3.) The thing is, this comes from a place in her that's about her own inner insecurities. Saying something that piques yours is a way to add salve to her own woundedness in this area and try to help heal herself kind of at your expense. Perhaps she wonders, "If I am so attractive, why can I not hold a man? Look at Hetaira, she's not as flawless as myself, but she's got guys. What is wrong with me?" Well, as you've pointed out, it's a lack of seeing other qualities as having value too. Perhaps even far more value than she has previously assigned.

4.) So you ask yourself, do I want to be friends with someone who is willing to push my buttons in order to help frame her own experience as having qualitative value over mine? Well, as you point out in your last post, she is in your life for a reason. Perhaps the reason is for her to be reminded of values that exceed the physical realm and awaken in maturity here. Perhaps it is for you to realize that looks matter more to you than you thought and that this is a place of inner examination that may bear fruit in how you treasure yourself. We are all human and growing, at every point, 20 or 50 or 94.

5.) Which leads to forgiveness. Yes, she might have meant to hit a button, and that was unkind. An apology could be graciously accepted, and I hope in some fashion it's already been offered. You too can forgive her for that particular frailty. What would help your friend feel like she has something more to offer than how she looks? What would help you both learn and keep growing? What would help you not feel as affected by external judgements, being at peace with yourself here? Since there's a mutuality, these would be questions I would look at in maintaining the friendship connection.

Hope it all works out between you.

Wise, wise, wise.

Bingo on everything you said.

I have felt in the last few months a growing competitiveness from her that I don't get, understand or want.

I will let things unfold as they will. Be there for her as she needs me, but the close intimacy may not continue due to the fact we hold far different values regarding appearances.

Yes, I was voted most beautiful in high school due to good genes. And many people have told me they never even knew I had facial scars I got in my 30's. However, at times they bother me, but in the grand scheme of things, they don't really. I feel the people in my life who love me could care less if I was badly mangled and a paraplegic. They love my soul as I love theirs.

 

[Norrsken]

You need to wipe that computer screen

how did u know??

 

[Tilt]

To add a counter-point, scars and asymmetry do take away from one's beauty in a conventional sense (this is coming from someone who has scars and some asymmetry) but that doesn't mean that one is unattractive. I honestly don't see what was inherently wrong with what your friend said.

 

[FemMecha]

She was pretty honest. She said it is hard for her to love a man if he is not attractive.

This is complete jibberish to me. What happens when he is 96? Still be a hottie?

I am really sorry that your friend hurt your feelings like that. It is on them, not you. I do think that some ISFPs are very laid back and able to adapt to new sensory experiences. Se should be able to adapt and see the beauty in the sensory world as though for the first time. Ideally someone with Se should be able to see a person's face like it is the only one in the entire world and beautiful for its own intrinsic value, but unfortunately, MBTI types don't account for a lot of how a person actually behaves.

I know the issue in the thread is the emotionally hurtful dynamic, but I wanted to share this pic with you for your own sense of beauty.

 

[1487610420]

The wonderful thing about typology/this forum/the internet is how neutral people can be, NEVER rushing into projecting their own biases, SPECIALLY when they perceive their group identity being under threat/attack.

 

[yoliyoli]

Ay, you gotta love yourself first. If you had, you probably wouldn't have reacted that way. You gotta accept yourself for who you are. Only then comes knowledge. Let's see, you gotta remember that you are the sum of your parts. Scars even. You are you. You don't need to fix you. And she doesn't need to fix you. But her comment was spot on since humans do take into account beauty. It's a thing. It's superficial, but it's a thing. But you can learn to appreciate it. Everyone has unique beauty. You too. Scars and everything. Humans are just incredibly vain, no matter who they are. It's part of their nature. They can't help it.