The Trouble with Typing (Tom Condon)

[Peter Deadpan]

fyp

Yes, but context is everything in this thread. I'm merely trying to keep my thoughts cohesive and relevant.

 

[1487610420]

Yes, but context is everything in this thread. I'm merely trying to keep my thoughts cohesive and relevant.

the thing with typology is...it's mostly bs to represent a subset of subjective, generic human behavior

my brain keeps reading title as condom, what type am I?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

the thing with typology is...it's mostly bs to represent a subset of subjective, generic human behavior

my brain keeps reading title as condom, what type am I?

I think it's useful at it's foundation (and interesting), but it's easy to get too caught up in generalizations. I personally believe in universal patterns, from the concrete (the movement of our solar system, sound waves/cymatics, sacred geometry) to the abstract (murmuration of birds, energy flow and its effects, personality patterns, etc). I think science and abstract theory can coexist, but it's difficult to measure the latter.

 

[1487610420]

I think it's useful at it's foundation (and interesting), but it's easy to get too caught up in generalizations. I personally believe in universal patterns, from the concrete (the movement of our solar system, sound waves/cymatics, sacred geometry) to the abstract (murmuration of birds, energy flow and its effects, personality patterns, etc). I think science and abstract theory can coexist, but it's difficult to measure the latter.

As a gateway to self actualization, sure, many things can serve as training wheels, but also not, instead serving as cannon fodder for the ego to build upon. It's not the subject matter, but the individual who defines the path.

Gravity doesn't require belief

 

[Peter Deadpan]

As a gateway to self actualization, sure, many things can serve as training wheels, but also not, instead serving as cannon fodder for the ego to build upon. It's not the subject matter, but the individual who defines the path.

Gravity doesn't require belief

I agree. Also, I like it when you talk about things besides my mom.

 

[deathwarmedup]

Do we have a "guess the above user's enneagram based on their username" thread yet?

Probably, since we have every other idiotic fluff thread that could possibly be imagined.

 

[deathwarmedup]

I don't think anyone who's 'properly' typed is really 'proud' of being said type,

I knew of a few on the EIDB who were clearly in love with their types - while adamant that they weren't. A couple sx 4w5s and 5w4s spring to memory.

 

[cascadeco]

I knew of a few on the EIDB who were clearly in love with their types - while adamant that they weren't. A couple sx 4w5s and 5w4s spring to memory.

Yeah, I'm not surprised about the 4's, and can see that with 5's as well.

One of the main 4 issues is insecurity/envy and feeling alone which increases 'I guess I'm 'special' / different', which then would cause pride I guess (?), and with 5's, they can become really smug and self-righteous in their information accumulation and dissemination.

 

[Snow as White]

This is definitely true about enneagram; if you really look into it, you realize how much all of the types equally suck. I don't think anyone who's 'properly' typed is really 'proud' of being said type, and usually I find all of the descriptions are fairly equally scathing in each types' struggles. I mean I guess there's the possibility of an individual glamorizing other types, that's true... but I would think that would point them to definitively NOT being those types they are glamorizing (I mean, for example, type 8 might sound really nice to me because they live a life that's opposite me and thus I might be envious or something about that and think it sounds way 'easier'... but ofc they have a whole different slew of issues).

well put.

I got professionally typed in a college course and remember looking at every other type going "golly that looks so much more amazing.... EXTJs have all the world leaders, type 9s are ethereal" etc. And then I have my EXTJ friends comment on how they admire my ability to be relaxed and my type 9s grateful I encourage them to tell everything to go to hell in an easter basket.

so i like the egram for its ability to push one's ego down to ground zero versus most of the other metrics out there where it's like "you're the best cherry in the cherry bowl."

 

[deathwarmedup]

Yeah, I'm not surprised about the 4's, and can see that with 5's as well.

One of the main 4 issues is insecurity/envy and feeling alone which increases 'I guess I'm 'special' / different', which then would cause pride I guess (?), and with 5's, they can become really smug and self-righteous in their information accumulation and dissemination.

Some of the 5w4s had more of a "special" complex than any of them. I'd say in both cases they were a distinct minority among their types though. 4w5s in particular can be very down to earth, despite the "special" tag.

 

[misfortuneteller]

8s and 3s are literally seen as bad apples for purely existing in many of the enneagram groups on FB.

 

[deathwarmedup]

8s and 3s are literally seen as bad apples for purely existing in many of the enneagram groups on FB.

I'll admit to a bias against 3s that extends into real life.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I'll admit to a bias against 3s that extends into real life.

Ah, i've recently gotten annoyed with the fact that I keep losing to 3s in job interviews. The occasional 7 as well since they can bring some quirk to the company.

 

[Bush]

Hey I can't help who I am

 

[bluejay]

The real problem is that most write/understand a personality type description from the point of view from ~within~ a person experiencing the personalty, or from the perspective of being ~outside~ the person.

You cannot use a description that uses the opposing point of view, for what you are trying to achieve. For example, using an 'interior' description, to create a system of knowledge to type others. Or, a collection of insights about external patterns that you directly apply to your lived experience of the interior. To type others, you need to have varied observational experiences. And to type yourself, you need a core understanding of the interior gesalt as it is expressed within you (not an 'outside' view).

For example..... if an interior description describes a "core gesalt", then this is relevant to a person analysing their own personality. From the outside, this gesalt may be expressed in a huge manner of different expressions. So, you cannot just use the core gesalt ALONE to type others patterns. You need to see the person before the gesalt. You need to see how that individual is expressing an individual and unique manifestation of the type. If you are drawing trends prematurely (if I see x, then I know they are a Y), you are blurring too many lines and you will miss-type people. Typing needs to be razor sharp in it's accuracy.

There's a lot of nuances and individual quirks and a type should be custom fit to a person, and not the other way around. A person should not have to be squeezed into a type. If you can't check every box, that shouldn't be an issue. It's like being your own subtype in the end. Every fix will manifest in a variety of ways at different times. It will not show up in exactly the same way every time. I agree with Tom, that you must look at the individual in front of you, and evaluate based on things beyond surface impressions. It's the asking "why 5 times thing. Not every 7 is going to be bouncy and happy.. not every 8 will be aggressive and domineering at every moment in time. You have to see the shades of grey and have enough observational experience AND creativity flexibility to see how the motif might be morphed in each individual. I would simply disregard the enneagram if there is no room for flexible analysis on this level, and assume everything is 'straight forward'. The truth comes before personal identity needs like being right.

This results in why there is little to no consistency for types, that it's all a matter of interpretation. We don't have any objective "DSM" for types. We have all manner of written descriptions that are often coloured by a persons own type. And it's not clear whether they are written from within or from an observational stand point.

I would be interested in seeing a collection of varying 'observations' be put together about types vs a collection of self authored reflections on a persons own self and how it relates to type. In essence, an array of varied expressions.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

You can't discriminate effectively, but God knows that people will try.

LOLOL. And yeah, separate people into groups and "us vs. them" mentality (Social Identity Theory) won't be too far behind.

I agree with the opinion a few have expressed that it seems more prevalent in mbti (for example), but it's still prevalent enough in Enneagram to be a legit gripe. Eta: except for e3s, towards whom hostility and acrimony are warranted. Hey we reap what we sow.