Suffering: Is suffering necessary for growth? Can suffering give birth to empathy?

[LightSun]

Is suffering necessary for growth? If you have suffered in life are you less likely to be judgmental and be more understanding, yes or no? Can suffering give birth to empathy?

Quote:

"Extraordinary people survive under the most terrible circumstances and they become more extraordinary because of it." Robertson Davies (1913-1995)

Quote:

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran (1883-1931)

Quote:

“Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experiences of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired and success achieved.” Helen Keller

Quote:

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

 

[Yuurei]

You forgot one-“ Pain is inevitable suffering is optional.”

 

[cascadeco]

Is suffering necessary for growth? If you have suffered in life are you less likely to be judgmental and be more understanding, yes or no? Can suffering give birth to empathy?

Quote:

"Extraordinary people survive under the most terrible circumstances and they become more extraordinary because of it." Robertson Davies (1913-1995)

Quote:

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran (1883-1931)

Quote:

“Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experiences of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, vision cleared, ambition inspired and success achieved.” Helen Keller

Quote:

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen." Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

I am inclined to think growth requires suffering, to some extent; but I don't think suffering means growth will happen. I think people who experience suffering will tend to go in two directions -- either overcome, accept, work through, surpass, etc, thus grow -- or the opposite, will not be able to achieve this and will become more rooted in a negative place.

 

[LightSun]

I am inclined to think growth requires suffering, to some extent; but I don't think suffering means growth will happen. I think people who experience suffering will tend to go in two directions -- either overcome, accept, work through, surpass, etc, thus grow -- or the opposite, will not be able to achieve this and will become more rooted in a negative place.

cascadeco wrote, (1) "...think growth requires suffering..."

I am not sure of the definitive answer myself. I can conceive that a child growing up in an atmosphere of safety, love and having guidelines may prosper by discovering their own unique self. I am aware that conflict can support growth. Conflict in manageable proportion can be an essential ingredient for growth. If the conflict is too much for the self to assimilate then flooding may occur. This is extremely unhealthy and shall occur in times of trauma or unexpected external events causing a person cognitive dissonance when their expected projection of reality collides with a real world scenario. If such is the case it takes a person time to assimilate the changes to their reality to coalesce with their prior preconceived expectations of how reality would play itself out. It takes time to adapt.

(2) "....suffering means growth will happen." and "...experience suffering....go in two directions -- either overcome, accept, work through, surpass, etc, thus grow -- or the opposite."

I believe this also. A person can reach within for resiliency factors and hidden strengths to overcome an obstacle in life's path. As you've stated a person can go the unhealthy route through the use of defense mechanisms, avoidance and overcompensation.

(3) "...rooted in a negative place."

This will usually occur if the person's system doesn't possess the required resiliency assets in order to cope. Trauma and unhealthy coping mechanisms will keep the person in prison until they can recover from a psychic wound.

 

[cascadeco]

cascadeco wrote, (1) "...think growth requires suffering..."

I am not sure of the definitive answer myself. I can conceive that a child growing up in an atmosphere of safety, love and having guidelines may prosper by discovering their own unique self. I am aware that conflict can support growth. Conflict in manageable proportion can be an essential ingredient for growth. If the conflict is too much for the self to assimilate then flooding may occur. This is extremely unhealthy and shall occur in times of trauma or unexpected external events causing a person cognitive dissonance when their expected projection of reality collides with a real world scenario. If such is the case it takes a person time to assimilate the changes to their reality to coalesce with their prior preconceived expectations of how reality would play itself out. It takes time to adapt.

(2) "....suffering means growth will happen." and "...experience suffering....go in two directions -- either overcome, accept, work through, surpass, etc, thus grow -- or the opposite."

I believe this also. A person can reach within for resiliency factors and hidden strengths to overcome an obstacle in life's path. As you've stated a person can go the unhealthy route through the use of defense mechanisms, avoidance and overcompensation.

(3) "...rooted in a negative place."

This will usually occur if the person's system doesn't possess the required resiliency assets in order to cope. Trauma and unhealthy coping mechanisms will keep the person in prison until they can recover from a psychic wound.

I don't disagree with what you've written.

Though I would add that when I'm speaking of 'suffering' in this context, it's more interpersonal, psychic wounds as you say, life hardships being overcome, and so on. I'm speaking more of your 'life suffering' in a more privileged sense - certainly this can include traumatic events, such as death, a house being burnt to the ground and losing all of ones possessions, things like that. Things that tip over any notion of everything always going the way we want it - that tip the ego over or force one to realize the nature of mortality or to look within ourselves to learn how to move forward in new circumstances. But I don't otoh think that suffering to the extent of severe physical trauma/torture, neglect, severe physical ailments or abuse/violation, starvation, certain chronic diseases or pain, some third world (even first world) atrocities, is 'necessary for growth'. These things are beyond the scope of where I believe 'suffering is required for growth'.

 

[Mole]

Prmary and Secondary education is given to us. it is our inheritance, we drink it in like mothers' milk, we accept it gratefully without criticism.

By contrast, Tertiary education is not given to us, we must create it ourselves.

We begin Tertiary education by critiquing everything we have learnt. This produces cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful, but the reward is delight in creating the new.

So the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance is a necessary part of a good Tertiary education.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Yes and yes, but an improvement in judgy-ness is not guaranteed. I'm probably more judgy these days, not that I'm proud of that.

 

[Cellmold]

Is this a trick question?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't know about the first question, but I definitely agree with the second part.

 

[LightSun]

Truth or unproven myth?

(2) “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Friedrich Nietzsche

"It is a myth that time heals all wounds. Rather they are bandaged over and protected by defense mechanisms. They are overcompensated for, or people practice avoidance behavior which is unhealthy. Unresolved trauma is a psychic wound which has caused much turmoil in our belief system about our self and the world we live in. I believe half of reality is internal and the other half is our external world. This would be inclusive of our particular genetics and the experienced life lessons we have learned based on our particular unique experiences of our life journey. Everyone has something that can break them in life.

Hopefully they will be one of the lucky one's and life runs fairly stable. It is the luck of the draw however. Nothing in this life is guaranteed. No matter the mental attitude or possessing a positive attitude, uncertainty in life can cause one into a tailspin. When it comes to trauma it is an internal wound. It may be bandaged over but the damage has already occurred. It takes time for our brain to balance the external real event and coincide this experience with our personal preconceived expectation thoughts of how our reality was going to turn out.

It is like being side swiped by a car when real reality and our own expectations collide. Trauma and life altering events cause us to experience cognitive dissonance. In this case a person has to reevaluate their priorities and what has meaning for them in life. It takes time for a person to come to grips and absorb the cognitive dissonance into a new revised version about themselves, their priorities and gaining a new perspective on their personal meaning of life. Their is hope by developing coping skills as well working on our strengths Our wounds never ever truly disappear. They can be overcompensated for but this is not necessarily healthy. It is not the persons chosen path but the cross they bear."

 

[LightSun]

Truth or unproven myth?

(2) “That which does not kill us makes us stronger.” Friedrich Nietzsche

"If it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger" is an erroneous belief. In the psychology field a term called 'flooding' can occur if too much trauma is manifest and can't be processed. This shall transpire in the event a trauma overtaxed one's coping mechanisms. One's self did not have the capacity of assimilating or processing an external trauma. The person in question may then endure flashbacks, P.T.S.D. symptoms, anxiety attacks and other symptoms. Many times in life traumas can be offset by resiliency, and developing latent coping- skills. The rate in homes with a dysfunctional atmosphere is that only one out of three will somehow remain unscathed.

What about the other full two thirds of people suffering due to trauma. We are only human and everything we experience become part of our subconscious. Too often in this scenario: overcompensation plus various defense mechanisms come into play. Our conscious has it's own mind and will reflexively fight, flight or freeze to not re-experience emotions often out of our control. It will take therapy, insight, will and social support but a person does not become at all by definition stronger. How are we suppose to know if a person raised by love, safety and proper boundaries plus not have endured unnecessary trauma the extent of what they might have developed into. If we were all stronger for are travails we would not have depression, mental illness, alcoholism and P.T.S.D. amid a host of other afflictions."

 

[LightSun]

'My combined and complete article"

"If it doesn't kill you it only makes you stronger" is an erroneous belief. It is a myth that time heals all wounds. In the psychology field a term called 'flooding' can occur if too much trauma is manifest and can't be processed. This shall transpire in the event a trauma overtaxed one's coping mechanisms. One's self did not have the capacity of assimilating or processing an external trauma. The rate in homes with a dysfunctional atmosphere is that only one out of three will somehow remain unscathed. What about the other full two thirds of people suffering due to trauma.

We are only human and everything we experience become part of our subconscious. The person in question may then endure flashbacks, P.T.S.D. symptoms, anxiety attacks and other symptoms.
Our conscious has it's own mind and will reflexively fight, flight or freeze to not re-experience emotions often out of our control. To manage these symptoms they may be bandaged over and protected by defense mechanisms. They are overcompensated for, or people practice avoidance behavior which is unhealthy.

Unresolved trauma is a psychic wound which has caused much turmoil in our belief system about our self and the world we live in. I believe in a striving for a balance between our inner phenomenological universe and our external reality. I believe half of reality is internal and the other half is our external world. This would be inclusive of our particular genetics and the experienced life lessons we have learned based on our particular unique experiences of our life journey. Everyone has something that can break them in life. Hopefully they will be one of the lucky one's and life runs fairly stable. It is the luck of the draw however.

Nothing in this life is guaranteed. No matter the mental attitude or possessing a positive attitude, uncertainty in life can cause one into a tailspin. When it comes to trauma it is an internal wound. It may be bandaged over but the damage has already occurred. It takes time for our brain to balance the external real event and coincide this experience with our personal preconceived expectation thoughts of how our reality was going to turn out. Our lives do not always turn out as expected.

We may get blind sided by our real outer reality and have our beliefs forced into question. It is like being side swiped by a car when real reality and our own expectations collide. When external reality in the form of trauma and life altering events meets expected reality cognitive dissonance can occur. In this case a person has to reevaluate their priorities and what has meaning for them in life. It takes time for a person to come to grips and absorb the cognitive dissonance into a new revised version about themselves, their priorities and gaining a new perspective on their personal meaning of life. Our wounds never ever truly disappear. They can be overcompensated for but this is not necessarily healthy. It is not the persons chosen path but the cross they bear.

Their is hope by developing coping skills as well working on our strengths. Many times in life traumas can be offset by resiliency, and developing latent coping- skills. It will take therapy, insight, will and social support but a person does not become at all by definition stronger. How are we suppose to know if a person raised by love, safety and proper boundaries plus not have endured unnecessary trauma the extent of what they might have developed into. If we were all stronger for are travails we would not have depression, mental illness, alcoholism and P.T.S.D. amid a host of other afflictions."

 

[Avocado]

Prmary and Secondary education is given to us. it is our inheritance, we drink it in like mothers' milk, we accept it gratefully without criticism.

By contrast, Tertiary education is not given to us, we must create it ourselves.

We begin Tertiary education by critiquing everything we have learnt. This produces cognitive dissonance which is emotionally painful, but the reward is delight in creating the new.

So the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance is a necessary part of a good Tertiary education.

This is brilliant.

 

[Virtual ghost]

For me this was always one of those "false wisdom" sayings from the other thread.

 

[ceecee]

Is suffering necessary for growth? No, not for everyone.

If you have suffered in life are you less likely to be judgmental and be more understanding, yes or no? I think you have a better grasp of something if you have lived through it, sure. How that understanding manifests in your actions isn't a slam dunk positive. Look at Trump - he has no real understanding of anything many of his supporters live through yet they think he understands them. It's like brain damage.

Can suffering give birth to empathy? It can yes. But I am very sure that that being empathetic is a choice no matter what kind of suffering has occurred.

 

[Lark]

For me this was always one of those "false wisdom" sayings from the other thread.

I liked that quote you had about learning from the suffering of others in the other thread I thought it was.

I'm not sure that suffering or pain are inevitable and they definitely are desirable, mad and all as it may seem to state that I dont think it goes without saying as there are people, I've read them, who think that suffering is desirable and should be preserved even where it is in no way necessitated any longer. You know the kind of thing. People who take endurance trips and subject themselves to life threateningly harsh conditions and believe it gives them perspective or that they appreciate their home comforts more as a result. Other people go beyond that to some sort of Spartan existence, living in the poorest conditions available when they could easily afford better for themselves.

Some suffering is necessitated by life but I think it can be reduced and there's no place in life for avoidable suffering.

Its not the beginning of empathy and its not a corrective or anything like that.