Pro-Social Sociopathy

[FemMecha]

There have been a variety of discussions on sociopathy online which often define it based on negative social traits. This video is especially interesting because this individual did not display destructive behavioral traits, but discovered a genetic connection to sociopathy via brain imaging.

James Fallon, psychologist, pro-social sociopath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I12H7khht7o

I've interacted with low-empathy individuals in my life both personally and professionally. In some cases these were individuals with Aspbergers, and in some cases they possessed attachment disorders. I'd like to approach this particular discussion with a thoughtful examination of these issues. It's best to avoid a childlike admiration of sociopathy, but also to not demonize it, since for some individuals it is not a choice, but a manner of being in their own human experience.

Have you encountered someone with these apparent issues? I'm mostly interested in an examination of the pro-social version of the sociopath. This is a person who lives their life in a constructive manner that contributes to society, but they function with extremely low-empathy which can affect their intimate relationships. It is quite a complex concept to approach from the standpoint of morality and to get your head around how to view such a person. How do you judge them? What are healthy expectations for their behavior? What do they need to internally moderate to be a part of society?

 

[highlander]

There have been a variety of discussions on sociopathy online which often define it based on negative social traits. This video is especially interesting because this individual did not display destructive behavioral traits, but discovered a genetic connection to sociopathy via brain imaging.

James Fallon, psychologist, pro-social sociopath
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I12H7khht7o

I've interacted with low-empathy individuals in my life both personally and professionally. In some cases these were individuals with Aspbergers, and in some cases they possessed attachment disorders. I'd like to approach this particular discussion with a thoughtful examination of these issues. It's best to avoid a childlike admiration of sociopathy, but also to not demonize it, since for some individuals it is not a choice, but a manner of being in their own human experience.

Have you encountered someone with these apparent issues? I'm mostly interested in an examination of the pro-social version of the sociopath. This is a person who lives their life in a constructive manner that contributes to society, but they function with extremely low-empathy which can affect their intimate relationships. It is quite a complex concept to approach from the standpoint of morality and to get your head around how to view such a person. How do you judge them? What are healthy expectations for their behavior? What do they need to internally moderate to be a part of society?

That's interesting. I think that a number of business leaders have these characteristics. I am not a super empathetic person but am shocked at just how uncaring and callous some individuals are about others. I listened to a guy at the airport a couple of months ago who was talking about laying off some of his staff and the way he was discussing the issue made me sick.

Here's a video mentioning results of some surveys that any profession where there is a power dynamic tends to attract people like this.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Within the context of a relationship, I'd say that I stop caring so much about understanding someone if they have little interest in understanding me. I think empathy is a two way street, really. I don't necessarily owe someone empathy. If someone is a drain on me, and I try really hard to understand them, and they put no effort to understand me, why exactly should my behavior continue?

I'm a little suspicious of people that brag about their empathy. Surely modesty counts for something, too.

I tend to think honesty is a more laudable trait than empathy. Usually, if I'm in a jam, that's what I need and value the most. I can tell when someone is making a white lie in the interest of making me feel better, and that just seems like someone is insulting my intelligence.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I'd like to approach this particular discussion with a thoughtful examination of these issues. It's best to avoid a childlike admiration of sociopathy, but also to not demonize it, since for some individuals it is not a choice, but a manner of being in their own human experience.

Have you encountered someone with these apparent issues? I'm mostly interested in an examination of the pro-social version of the sociopath. This is a person who lives their life in a constructive manner that contributes to society, but they function with extremely low-empathy which can affect their intimate relationships. It is quite a complex concept to approach from the standpoint of morality and to get your head around how to view such a person. How do you judge them? What are healthy expectations for their behavior? What do they need to internally moderate to be a part of society?

Is that a choice or a second nature ? For enneagramm, type 3 and 8 who are unhealthy can adopt sociopatic behaviours.

There is also a difference between antisocial and sociopath personalities.

Sociopaths know what they need to do and say to have power over you (they use charm as A WEAPON).

Their survival technic in that world we live in is MANIPULATION in many ways.



http://youtu.be/tp8v4PUIr7o

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Within the context of a relationship, I'd say that I stop caring so much about understanding someone if they have little interest in understanding me. I think empathy is a two way street, really. I don't necessarily owe someone empathy. If someone is a drain on me, and I try really hard to understand them, and they put no effort to understand me, why exactly should my behavior continue?

I'm a little suspicious of people that brag about their empathy. Surely modesty counts for something, too.

I tend to think honesty is a more laudable trait than empathy. Usually, if I'm in a jam, that's what I need and value the most. I can tell when someone is making a white lie in the interest of making me feel better, and that just seems like someone is insulting my intelligence.

So my ex boss is a sociopath. Well for sure he was indeed narcissist.

In a relationship, if you respect yourself, know what you want, are intelligent or just sensitive,
it is much more easy to make the sociopath go away. But he will be back several times for sure !
The one who has met a sociopath will need some strength and a great personality to deal with him.
My 1st advice would be : show yourself INSENSITIVE. And break off the relation as fast as you can !

It happened to me once. This man still sends me messages and so on, but he knows what I think of him.
And he knows I don't want him to approach me.

This one is a type 3. He has no chance with me. Very bad actor ! And I'm not materialistic enough to enter his game.


For me too, honesty is more laudable than empathy. The last one can be fake to get something from you.
Whatever you've got to preserve, share, or offer.

 

[unsomething]

I think this isn't really an "I did it, and so can you" type of thing. Psychopaths are problematic because they can't (most of them can't) generally control their impulses, it's like being an alcoholic, only messing up a single time... that's game over. I think there is a place for them and we should provide that to them rather than lock them up forever, but I don't think you can train a psychopath to be pro-social if they don't naturally understand that they must be for their own benefit.

 

[Fiend]

I'm so sick of people glamorizing sociopathy and other dangerous defects. And by glamorizing I mean raising any questions about their potential for good. I mean why can't we just hate on sociopaths and leave it at that? . When did these depraved kinds become some misunderstood anti heroes to be admired?

 

[Opal]

I'm so sick of people glamorizing sociopathy and other dangerous defects. And by glamorizing I mean raising any questions about their potential for good. I mean why can't we just hate on sociopaths and leave it at that? . When did these depraved kinds become some misunderstood anti heroes to be admired?

People with low intelligence quotients disgust me. It doesn't matter how good their intentions are if they're imbeciles; they're still going to fuck things up. Why do we feel the need to include them in society?

 

[Fiend]

People with low intelligence quotients disgust me. It doesn't matter how good their intentions are if they're imbeciles; they're still going to fuck things up. Why do we feel the need to include them in society?

Because typically they are any combination of funnier, better rappers, faster, stronger, or lower maintenance than those without low IQs.

 

[Opal]

Because typically they are any combination of funnier, better rappers, faster, stronger, or lower maintenance than those without low IQs.

I like you.

 

[Fiend]

I like you.

And I you, mr. or ms. awesome avatar.

 

[prplchknz]

I think florida is an oasis of them,

 

[skylights]

Just a personal anecdote, I am close with someone with Asperger's, and he certainly has low empathy. But he is also conscientious, affable, sociable, and protective. It's just that he doesn't process the way others do. He doesn't automatically put himself in someone else's shoes and feel the feelings they might feel. He does understand from an intellectual standpoint why negative events impact a person painfully, and he can be walked through empathy by explaining to him how it feels to be in your shoes. Funny enough, he actually ends up being more helpful and dependable than many people with higher empathy because he follows a more rigid internal construct. We have discussed "alignment" and he believes himself to be lawful neutral, if that can give you an idea of how he processes. Personally I find him more trustworthy and a better person than a lot of others out there. So in terms of moderation and being part of society, I think he has it down. He actually works with behavioral problem kids himself.

It has really impacted my own morality because prior to interacting with him I had a very clear idea of good as being altruistic, but he facilitates personal development in other people by being himself and doing his thing and ensuring that others have the freedom to do that as well. It reminds me very much of House from the TV show - arguably a morally good character because he saves a huge number of lives, but on a personal level he's not really doing it to help them, but because he finds it intriguing. Ultimately I feel like as long as we have clear, explicit laws in place that forbid and punish behavior that limits others' right and ability to live and self actualize, people with low empathy will be able to function in society, and hopefully science can increasingly help attend to people with such strong versions of the disorders that they tend towards destructive behavior.

 

[prplchknz]

Just a personal anecdote, I am close with someone with Asperger's, and he certainly has low empathy. But he is also conscientious, affable, sociable, and protective. It's just that he doesn't process the way others do. He doesn't automatically put himself in someone else's shoes and feel the feelings they might feel. He does understand from an intellectual standpoint why negative events impact a person painfully, and he can be walked through empathy by explaining to him how it feels to be in your shoes. Funny enough, he actually ends up being more helpful and dependable than many people with higher empathy because he follows a more rigid internal construct. We have discussed "alignment" and he believes himself to be lawful neutral, if that can give you an idea of how he processes. Personally I find him more trustworthy and a better person than a lot of others out there. So in terms of moderation and being part of society, I think he has it down. He actually works with behavioral problem kids himself.

It has really impacted my own morality because prior to interacting with him I had a very clear idea of good as being altruistic, but he facilitates personal development in other people by being himself and doing his thing and ensuring that others have the freedom to do that as well. It reminds me very much of House from the TV show - arguably a morally good character because he saves a huge number of lives, but on a personal level he's not really doing it to help them, but because he finds it intriguing. Ultimately I feel like as long as we have clear, explicit laws in place that forbid and punish behavior that limits others' right and ability to live and self actualize, people with low empathy will be able to function in society, and hopefully science can increasingly help attend to people with such strong versions of the disorders that they tend towards destructive behavior.

you do know my post was refering to people who are malicious? this person i'd be friends with and I relate to having to go from an intellectual standpoint to understand why people are the way they are.

 

[skylights]

you do know my post was refering to people who are malicious? this person i'd be friends with and I relate to having to go from an intellectual standpoint to understand why people are the way they are.

Oh, I wasn't responding to your post at all, no offense. I was just responding to the OP. I think looking at the people on the low end of the spectrum who are able to function well in society is an important key to helping those people on the high-end of the spectrum.

 

[prplchknz]

Oh, I wasn't responding to your post at all, no offense. I was just responding to the OP. I think looking at the people on the low end of the spectrum who are able to function well in society is an important key to helping those people on the high-end of the spectrum.

I wasn't offended, I was clarifying just incase

 

[FemMecha]

The link in the OP brings up the question whether sociopathy is a neurological hard-wiring or a set of external behaviors.

This question of low-apathy neurology is an issue a bit complex for a chat, but something we all encounter. There are complex intertwining of Aspergers, attachment disorders, and atypical neurologies. I've known people diagnosed with Aspbergers who could also have sociopathy because of their levels of manipulation. For the individuals I've known who are strikingly neuro-atypical, they form deep attachments to dogs and do possess some sort of empathy, but they don't form that same connection to other people. I've gotten along peaceful with some for at least a period of time, but have also experienced damaging effects psychologically, so it's a topic of interest to me.

It brings to mind questions about what is empathy? How does it relate to the fundamental concepts of "self" and "other"? Is the empathy for the dog an extension of the self? Is all empathy this? Can such individuals mistake narcissism for empathy because both conditions minimize the boundary between self and other, and both mindsets experience whatever is encountered as part of the "self". For the narcissist, the pain of others can be internalized as inside the self, but they do this at the expense of the other person. They will then use resources to make sure that pain inside self is nurtured even if this is at the expense of the other individual who is actually experiencing the pain. The empathic person may experience the pain of others as their own, but they will sacrifice self to heal the pain in the other because they experience it on the other person's terms and not on their own.