[MBTI General] NFJ's superior?

[Mycroft]

I guess that helps since one saying is: "it's lonely at the top"

That's just something slave morality F types believe.

 

[Totenkindly]

That's just something slave morality F types believe.

Max: My teacher says that real beauty is on the inside.
Fletcher: That's just something that ugly people say to feel better about themselves.

 

[runvardh]

That's just something slave morality F types believe.

Who said I believed it?

 

[Mycroft]

Who said I believed it?

Not I!

 

[indigo2020]

After reading some website's article on a MB society where INFP's ruled all and progressively downwards you had each other types position, until you reached INT's at the bottom (pretty sure it was a joke), I couldn't help but think, which type would be the best at ruling others?

So my mind conjured the three best fictional leaders that came to mind, Dumbledore, Gandalf and Moiraine, from HP, LOTR and WoT. There were other's but they become more and more unheard of.

So the next step, to type these three, all INFJ's in my mind. Then to back this up, i thought of all the definite INFJ's i've talked to and i thought they were all amazing in the same, but more subtle a way, as those three.

I then typed my favourite (fictional again) heroes, and they were all ENFJ's.

While i believe all types are equal, after checking the NFJ descriptions part of me is now convinced that NFJ's are the best. Even though i'm sure type has nothing to do with how good a person you are.

Anyway i'm sure i'm wrong, missing something obvious or making a fool of myself, but what do you non-NFJ's think of them and what do NFJ's think of themselves?

Also what are NFJ's you know like?.

Thanks, and i'm sorry for being crap at this. Oh and i'm well aware that little of my thought process was based in reality, I just want to know what NFJ's are like.

well, we're the best of course. sheesh.

 

[niffer]

It would depend on what type of people being led, and for what reason.

(context!!)

In general though, if we're talking about a world leader, I know one ENFP that would be perfect for the job.

 

[indigo2020]

I've been in a number of leadership positions and enjoy it, but I would have to say that imo an ENTJ is especially well suited to leadership. Of course leadership is not just one thing. It depends largely on who is being led and why. There are scenarios when different types would succeed. For example, on the battlefield, an EST- would have an incredible advantage over any NF. For humanitarian efforts NFJs can certainly organize people, inspire with poignant language, and make something happen. To lead small children -F-Ps have a certain advantage in understanding the children and being ready for their spontaneous needs. One more aspect of leadership worth mentioning, you have to be able to take a TON of crap from people. Constant whining, complaining, second guessing, mud-slinging. Because of that I can't do it long-term or it makes me sick. T's will always have an advantage in that regard. As a general, sweeping statement, NFs work exceptionally well as high ranking support for a leader, and/or for leading smaller groups to specific humanitarian type goals.

In a word, a leader needs to be able to represent the thinking, needs, and goals of those they lead. For leading a large, faceless mass, you do need an abstract thinker who thinks long-term, can organize and devise effective systems and put them into practice. ENTJ works rather well for that imo.

On a serious note, I like this hypothesis.

 

[indigo2020]

It would depend on what type of people being led, and for what reason.

(context!!)

In general though, if we're talking about a world leader, I know one ENFP that would be perfect for the job.

hey niffer, what's up?

 

[Brendan]

I can't see where the E comes from, if he took a test i reckon he'd come out as INFJ, maybe not strong I but he spends most awake time alone and seems to like that.

Yeah. I test as INFJ too. If you read an ENFJ description you'll see that they have a big tendency to keep large parts of themselves hidden.

 

[niffer]

hey niffer, what's up?

Catsup.

btw, do you like minioning?

 

[indigo2020]

Catsup.

btw, do you like minioning?

WTF??!!

 

[BallentineChen]

I think our popular conceptions of what a leader is is misleading and discourages people that fall short of that image from seeking positions of leadership. However, I see more and more evidence in the news and in literature supporting the idea that these quiet leaders contribute the most to the long-term sustainability of corporations and are desperately in need. An example of this literature is the business classic "Built to Last." Also, Peter Drucker, who is regarded as the father of modern management, also encourages management styles that shatter our preconceptions. Reading the former book opened my eyes and vindicated what I perceived as my own peculiarities and turned them into my greatest assets. It would be a great service to any reader that doesn't regard himself as an ideal leader to read "Built to last."

 

[Ender]

I used to go by my own interpretation of one of Peter Drucker's quotes when I was doing work on an MMORPG. I knew the point of his statement, but the way it was worded allowed me to use it my own way. He was talking about how consumers would buy cheap stuff and streamlining production for maximum profits etc, and I was using it as a way of telling the higher ups to stop wasting time on crap that would ultimately be unwanted or lose it's appeal to the public fast.

As for INFP's being at the top in the OP. I much prefer to be more outside of the Management tree, or second rung down if need be. We make much better mediators between the top and those below it then anything else. I guess that could go for ENFP's as well to a degree since I'm much more ENFP at work then I am INFP since I'm somewhat forced to be. I know in business meetings and through out daily business etc I'm always the one doing the smoothing between my boss and our customers.

 

[ByMySword]

I disagree strongly about Gandalf (INTx). He's very detached and shows Te, not Fe. I don't know the others well enough to comment, however.

Sorry to throw in a wrench so early, please continue.

No, I think Gandalf would be an INFJ. Saruman would be an example of an INTJ.

Edit: Wow I didn't even realize how old this thread was.

But to answer your question, I would say that the ruling type would be INTJs with INFJs as their seconds. INFJs would be their advisors in delicate matters. Then the INFJs would deploy the ENFPs to do the dirty work for them.

 

[CzeCze]

I appreciated PTGatsby's use of figures (wish he'd come back to the site!) -- it's nice to know ENFPs fill a number of top management positions.

This thread reminds me of Ezra's thread about J being more productive than P. Leadership and productivity depend on context.

I've been reading a bunch of example essays for b-school and 'leadership' is a big question and essay topic. I've noticed people's conceptions of leadership are really impacted by type and VERY different.

I prefer the broader definition of leadership as taking ownership and responsbility for your environment and the people around you. This is kinda where my posts about J vs. P was heading and coincides nicely with this --

ENFP leadership is much less about holding titles and hierarchal authority over people and more about influencing and directing energies and providing vision. I think true leaders don't need titles or a trad rank and file groups or boss people around. That's a very trad TJ way of looking at things. And while you can say some people are 'Leaders', leadership is a context specific role that anyone can (and do regularly) fill and step out of. It's more a flex role that people take up when their motivations and skill sets happen to match the needs of the moment.

Speaking from personal experience, I've always felt a need to interact with my environment and exert my influence on it. Be in the mix and make my mark. I can't stand idly by if I don't like what I see and I feel compelled to start things if I feel the need. For an example, I organized a girls basketball clinic in highschool when I was the only girl in the 'co-ed' clinic and didn't like how I was treated by the guys. I've taken the iniative to organize a lot of 'firsts' and be really involved with "the community".

From my experience as someone with a title versus a more unofficial 'leader' the work you do and the impact is essentially the same in a lot of cases.

The biggest difference that I see between being an official and unofficial leader is that you have more freedom and less bureacracy without a title, but having an affiliation and rank within an organization gives you much more access to resources and therefore widen your sphere of influence.

A lot of official leadership positions whether in a corporation or politics has a LOT more to do with administration and paper work and just keeping an organization running and less to do with really leading the organization anywhere new or better.

That's why I quoted in the 'J vs. P' thread the different kinds of leadership displayed by a founder/entrepreneur (visionary) and the CEO or President (administrator/bottom line strategist) Both leaders but require different skill sets and serve different roles. People further break down leadership in business roles in terms of strategy vs. tactical, management vs. supervisor, etc.

Oh and, being a good team player is often the corequisite skill you need to be an effective leader. And in many ways more influential than your ability to lead others.

 

[hideki]

i highly agree with this thread. XNFJs, everywhere I go are the "dominant", "alpha", "superior" in any group or organization (like I was in middle school, heh) One of my friends who is really well known and looked up to is an ENFJ. Everytime I talk to him he calls me "the boss" . (i'm INFJ). My old roommate from college is probably one of the most popular in the student body (ENFJ).