Meryl Streep

[Economica]

Meryl Streep's type

What say you to Meryl Streep as either an INFJ or an INTP?

The following is a post I just made at INTPc:

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On Letterman (6 minutes)
With Devil Wears Prada costars (8 minutes)

Her type has been discussed elsewhere...

From the Famous living INTP women thread:

All right, I watched the David Letterman interview.

• She threw the terms "objective" vs "subjective" into the conversation unexpectedly -- totally caught me by surprise, it was clear she actively thinks in those terms inwardly, it was part of her "personal language." I usually do not hear the words used outside of this board so freely.
  
• Had some very sharp humor... a little forced in spots and stilted, as if she had rehearsed the joke mentally ahead of time, but usually dry and funny when she was impromptu. Even straight-faced a few jokes convincingly.
  
• Used hands a lot to complement her comments, to give physical space to what she was describing, as if imagining the scene unfolding or visualizing the object in front of her. Non-visualizing hand movements otherwise involved regularly only hand twirls (a lot of them).
  
• Laughed at the appropriate times, and seemed to want to be in an open, "laughing" mode. I felt her body language was that of an open introvert... i.e., she was a little nervous, but was trying to communicate her willingness to be open and have fun.
  
• Lookswise, she was pretty, but nothing really "daring" per se... or no odd combinations or bold statements. Seemed to be simple and straightforward, while feminine.

To be honest, I have never met a female INTP in RL... so I have no body language repository to draw upon. The males are either stiff (unsure of how to hold their body), or else relaxed and easy-going. I did recognize a lot of Meryl's body movements in myself, when I'm wanting to be open and easy-going... especially that whole "leaning over thing" where she about collapsed when she was laughing in the chair. I do exactly the same thing... almost like I'm trying too hard to convey that I found something funny, or maybe that I haven't yet learned to express emotion physically in a nuanced way (it's usually either all or nothing).

She's not INTJ... too free and relaxed for that. Nor did she feel as "soft" as INFP.

That leaves me with INFJ vs INTP -- there is a stiffness to her, yet also a fluidity. Since I felt like she was exuding "P" behavior/attitude, any stiffness would have to come from T.

So I think it's plausible she is INTP -- but she is balanced in her functions. Her Ti is not *larger* than her Ne (they're close to equal), and I think she's developed some of her F functions as well, to round herself out as an actress.

Thank you for your insightful analysis. I appreciate your arguments and of course am in complete agreement. Perhaps I can clinch the TP/FJ thing with this quote:

(On her role in The Manchurian Candidate) "I loved being someone so certain. Because certainty is just so attractive in people. To me, it's a completely bogus position - for me. Because, you know, I'm listening to every side. But it's so nice not to have to listen to all the different sides. To be so clear and on your track and sure. It's a fabulous thing. Unfortunately, it leads to fanaticism."

From the Edward Norton thread:

Meryl Streep, I'll have to find out more, but I haven't seen anything to indicate her being an INTP except being listed on a few sites as one. I've read a few things on her since this thread, and am not convinced yet. She seems to have a need for recognition that I don't think INTPs have (based on her interviews). Do the people here who think she's an INTP have any arguments for this, besides, she's smart?

... Quoting myself above, I realize I may have read way too much into the Manchurian Candidate quote. I'm used to thinking of INXJs as opinionated to a fault whistling but I probably shouldn't write off the INFJ typing on uncertainty/openness alone.

Actually, as I write this, I'm starting to lean toward the INFJ typing for Meryl Streep as well. ('As well' because I've begun to think the same about Edward Norton.)

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[proteanmix]

Quotes time!

"Every time I think it's a silly way to spend my life, I see a performance by another actor and think, 'I couldn't live if I didn't have this in my life.' I really think that. Or a piece of music. We need art. We really need art. Maybe we need to feel we count, like our existence matters. Acting can do that; it can make you feel more alive and proud to be a human being. Even seeing the worst of humanity."---Streep on why people need to act to USA Weekend, December 1, 2002.

"I don't go anywhere. You have to go to openings and be on E! entertainment, and I've never enjoyed doing that. I don't even go to openings of my friends' movies, even though it's supportive and lovely to do. It poses a problem marketing a movie, because they want you out and about. So it's always a tug, it's always a battle with the guilt making machine."---Streep in The Boston Globe, December 22, 1996.

"I know that when I start a new job, that this is the thing that precedes me," Streep says with a sigh. "That I'm rigorous in doing my homework and hideously overprepared, and ..." She shrugs. "And that's fine. Better to come off as smarter and more disciplined than I actually am." She waits a beat and then adds with a delighted laugh, "Not that I'm interested in debunking the myth!"---Streep on the myth that she is difficult, to Time magazine, June 19, 2006.

"My biggest problem in my entire life is time management. But it really defines the big, important things.

I've made career judgments on the basis of making [my family] happy. Like not taking location things, and if it is on location, writing it in the contract that, I'm going to be home at a certain time and work so many days. And then I'm out of there!

"She's past the analyzing of the character. Her training and her experience have taken her to a point where she can be effortless with a lot of things other people have to work really hard at."---Robert Redford quoted in Entertainment Weekly, October 7, 1994.

"When you watch her work in something like "Adaptation," where it's so kind-of idealistic - it's slippery sort of stuff - she just brings you along. You feel as if you're experiencing it with her: When she starts laughing like, 'This is nuts; this is crazy,' you start thinking, 'This really is crazy!' She's very funny, very bright and really bossy, which is another quality I like about her. I think that comes from being four people's mother."---Julianne Moore Hollywood Reporter June 6, 2004

"When you're being watched unnaturally you feel it, if you're a sensitive person. Who knows what this delicate thing is that actors are making? So if that's diva behavior, sorry. I don't have handlers. I do have a longtime makeup man and hairdresser who performs the scourge role in my on-set life and keeps people away."---Streep on asking reporters to leave the set while she is working to Entertainment Weekly, October 7, 1994.

 

[developer]

I would spontaneously (pure gut feeling) consider her INFJ. That was my first thought whe reading the title of your post, without opening it. So, I agree on your first option

 

[scantilyclad]

eh i still think INTP

 

[FemMecha]

* She threw the terms "objective" vs "subjective" into the conversation unexpectedly -- totally caught me by surprise, it was clear she actively thinks in those terms inwardly, it was part of her "personal language." I usually do not hear the words used outside of this board so freely.

* Used hands a lot to complement her comments, to give physical space to what she was describing, as if imagining the scene unfolding or visualizing the object in front of her. Non-visualizing hand movements otherwise involved regularly only hand twirls (a lot of them).

* Lookswise, she was pretty, but nothing really "daring" per se... or no odd combinations or bold statements. Seemed to be simple and straightforward, while feminine.

I relate immediately to the bolded qualities. I do those things 'all the time'.

I agree that INTP and INFJ seem plausible. I actually lean towards INFJ primarily because of the emotionally charged quality of her work on a day to day basis. It would take a great deal of emotional tolerance to do her work. INFJs can have tremendous emotional tolerance, and sometimes INTPs have rather low tolerance. INFJs can come off as rather cool, distant, and detached. They are the least 'touchy feely' of the Feelers.

The subjective/objective dichotomy is very real to the INFJ. Their introverted functions are Ni-Ti, while their extroverted are Fe-Se. Because of this their minds are at war between those two systems of thought. It is the forefront of their mental processing - at least it is for mine.

 

[Totenkindly]

I agree that INTP and INFJ seem plausible. I actually lean towards INFJ primarily because of the emotionally charged quality of her work on a day to day basis. It would take a great deal of emotional tolerance to do her work. INFJs can have tremendous emotional tolerance, and sometimes INTPs have rather low tolerance. INFJs can come off as rather cool, distant, and detached. They are the least 'touchy feely' of the Feelers.

But what of the INTP ability to objectify emotions? Female INTPs are quite capable of dealing with emotions, because of that ability.

And Streep does not come off as "cool, distant, and detached," such as Nicole Kidman or Naomi Watts or Jonatha Brooke or other female artistic INFJs.

There is a cool clean detachment to INFJ women simply because they organize their presentation, even when they are in casual mode. (Even you show this, in your posting style and in the pictures of you I have seen.)

But Streep is much more relaxed and free-form, even a bit uncomfortable when having to present herself a certain way or meet some sort of social expectation, and seemed to like to react to what was happening and feel her way through things rather than presenting/crafting her own image.

 

[INTJMom]

I think it's tough because she's older, too.
I've loved her ever since Kramer vs Kramer.

She definitely seems Introverted, with all the comments about staying home and keeping people away.

One of her gifts is being able to do so many different accents, with excellence.

The way she studies her character so deeply - ahead of time - J behavior?
"I'm going to be home at a certain time and work so many days. And then I'm out of there!" seems very J also.

What's this about though?
""That I'm rigorous in doing my homework and hideously overprepared, and ..." She shrugs. "And that's fine. Better to come off as smarter and more disciplined than I actually am."" Would that be more NF or NT or would either be about the same?
I'm thinking NTs usually know they're smart. They don't need to appear smarter than they already are.

 

[INTJMom]

she kissed Letterman's hand back - socially awkward
I feel like a horse - N
I am objective - T
I think - T

AFI award:
Wow she's funny -
tongue-tied - I
she's so demonstrative
brutally honest - T

she didn't have fun
bad mood
felt the pain of the character
taskmaster, controlling
negative outlook

dressed J rather than P - YouTube - Meryl Streep on Ellen.
"I don't look back"

She's INTJ.
YouTube - Meryl Streep - Questionnaire yeah - INTJ

 

[Economica]

INTJMom, thanks for chiming in, however, do you actually know any INTJ women IRL (apart from yourself) whom you recognize in Meryl Streep? How about any INFJ or INTP women for comparison?

My mother is 60 and INTJ and I do not recognize any of her in Meryl Streep. As quoted in the OP: "She's not INTJ... too free and relaxed for that." Of course, that puts a negative spin on it. I guess a different way of saying it is that she doesn't seem as intent on world domination as the rest of us.

 

[Totenkindly]

Sometimes it helps to compare people / overlay their pattern profile overtop someone who is an obvious example of a type.

For example, Jodie Foster is an INTJ type; and Streep does not "match up" with her. There are similarities, but overall I couldn't class them as the same type. (Therefore, Streep is something different than INTJ.)

 

[INTJMom]

INTJMom, thanks for chiming in, however, do you actually know any INTJ women IRL (apart from yourself) whom you recognize in Meryl Streep? How about any INFJ or INTP women for comparison?

My mother is 60 and INTJ and I do not recognize any of her in Meryl Streep. As quoted in the OP: "She's not INTJ... too free and relaxed for that." Of course, that puts a negative spin on it. I guess a different way of saying it is that she doesn't seem as intent on world domination as the rest of us.

Before yesterday, I thought Streep was an S, so I didn't have a pre-conceived notion that she was INTJ.
I tested one woman I knew who was INTP and 3 men, I think I have known 2 female INFJs and a couple of male INFJs, and I am partially INFJ myself.

Did you see the last interview I posted? A lot of her real self comes out.

"too free and relaxed" - I watched several other videos where she was being herself, and I did not get the impression that she is free and relaxed. The more I watched, the more I related to her.

I believe she is an I.
She seemed very N.
Her brutal honesty with herself makes her a T.

I can't say for sure if she's a P or a J, though when she shows up for a tv interview, she is dressed more J than P.
And as I pointed out before, she has that strict boundary with her family vs doing films on location. A "P" would crave to be more flexible than that, and also would have stated it in a more P way.

She said she "steals" techniques from other people - I do that, too.
She is brutally honest - so am I.
She is extremely self-deprecating - I am, too.

I just know that I related to her.
The more she talked, the more convinced I became that might very possibly be an INTJ.
Obviously, I don't know for sure, but that is my impression.

The sound she hates the most is the sound of pain.
She might have a high F.

I have found F people to be naturally diplomatic.
I have been studying for 20 years, the way that an F will respond in such a gracious way.
They always impress me with their natural ability to not be offensive.
I didn't see that in Meryl's interviews.
I'm not saying she was unkind or offensive, I'm just saying I didn't hear the F talking.

For instance, she contradicted Ellen at least twice.
I have never seen an F do that in that curt of a manner.

She seems awfully black and white to me but I suppose she could be a P.
I will have to see some more of her.

While I was searching around, I saw that she'll be starring in a movie with Pierce Brosnan
Mamma Mia! (2008)

 

[Economica]

Did you see the last interview I posted? A lot of her real self comes out.

Yes, I saw it and I've seen many others. I stand by that I do not recognize any of my mother in Meryl Streep.

"too free and relaxed" - I watched several other videos where she was being herself, and I did not get the impression that she is free and relaxed. The more I watched, the more I related to her.

Hmm... I find myself wishing you would upload a video of yourself talking and gesturing (like this INFJ one). I wouldn't do it myself so I completely understand if you won't, but I'm afraid I'd have to see it in order to believe that an INTJ woman could come across like MS does. I see no Te in her whatsoever.

Also, how about that quote on her role in the Manchurian Candidate (see the OP)? Judging not only by my mother but also by other female INTJs I know, that quote is saliently out of character for an INTJ. (INFJ I will buy.)

I have found F people to be naturally diplomatic.
I have been studying for 20 years, the way that an F will respond in such a gracious way.
They always impress me with their natural ability to not be offensive.
I didn't see that in Meryl's interviews.
I'm not saying she was unkind or offensive, I'm just saying I didn't hear the F talking.

For instance, she contradicted Ellen at least twice.
I have never seen an F do that in that curt of a manner.

I have seen an INFJ be ungracious/undiplomatic in precisely the way Meryl Streep is. I'm leaning more and more toward her being INFJ.

INFJ females and people who know (a mature) one extremely well, what say you?

 

[FemMecha]

Are we sure she is an introvert? She joked about calling an acting gift "having something weird inside you that makes you want to show off in this particular way". Right after Letterman she has a big birthday party to go to (although she said she was dreading it, but didn't say if it was because it was a big party or just something else about it). She goes to her son's concerts, 'hides in the back so she can scream and yell'. Her presence is very extroverted (of course she is an actress ) She didn't say anything in the interviews to allude to being withdrawn or recharging alone. No indications of introversion in these particular interviews.

When watching the clips ENTP is what came to my mind. She describes her husband as very stable which enables her to have her spaz moments, and yet I can definitely see the T quality to her. ENTPs can be very insightful into people's minds and emotions. Of the NTs the ENTP and INTJ are the more emotional ones having tertiary Feeling functions. INTJs and ENTPs can be surprisingly passionate.

INTJ - Ni Te Fi Se
ENTP - Ne Ti Fe Si

She seems awfully black and white to me but I suppose she could be a P.
I will have to see some more of her.

J's are more structured and as a result are going to have comprehensive systems of thought in place before forming an opinion (iNtuitors tend to). P's remain open-ended on some level, but seem to balance this by selecting certain absolutes to anchor them in their sea of choices. I think the main difference with a P is that once an opinion is formed for a J, it takes restructuring to overturn it. I very often experience Ps (especially FPs) as being more willing to apply absolutes (both ideal and negative) to situations than J's.

 

[Tigerlily]

I love Meryl Streep. She is at the very top of my favorite actors list.

She often comments on how unprepared she is outside of her roles in films. I remember her attending an awards show where she hadn't dressed appropriately and her hair and makeup were a complete disaster.

I believe she's an E?TP. Maybe ESTP. It's really impossible to know without spending time with her.

 

[Economica]

Are we sure she is an introvert? She joked about calling an acting gift "having something weird inside you that makes you want to show off in this particular way". Right after Letterman she has a big birthday party to go to (although she said she was dreading it, but didn't say if it was because it was a big party or just something else about it). She goes to her son's concerts, 'hides in the back so she can scream and yell'. Her presence is very extroverted (of course she is an actress ) She didn't say anything in the interviews to allude to being withdrawn or recharging alone. No indications of introversion in these particular interviews.

toonia, you and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on whether Robert De Niro's level of introversion is representative.

I believe she's an E?TP. Maybe ESTP.

What are you basing this on?

 

[Totenkindly]

Are we sure she is an introvert? She joked about calling an acting gift "having something weird inside you that makes you want to show off in this particular way". Right after Letterman she has a big birthday party to go to (although she said she was dreading it, but didn't say if it was because it was a big party or just something else about it). She goes to her son's concerts, 'hides in the back so she can scream and yell'. Her presence is very extroverted (of course she is an actress ) She didn't say anything in the interviews to allude to being withdrawn or recharging alone. No indications of introversion in these particular interviews.

That's funny. Because I get no extrovert vibes off her at all. I am not analyzing what she is saying (which is all contextual, in any case, and cannot be taken as singular declarative statements of "type" -- introverts... and especially moms... are capable of extroverted behavior when their children and/or family are concerned), I am simply looking at how she carries herself and faces the world -- sort of a "general presentation" sort of thing. (She's a mature introvert, if that helps, not a neurotic stereotypical one.)

When watching the clips ENTP is what came to my mind.

No, she operates from an internally subjective point of view, separate from the world. She very much has that internal base of operations, from which she peers out, collects information, then takes it all back in to impact her internal world.

As an exercise, how do you think she compares to Digest, for example? I do not see much similarity there in terms of presentation.

I believe she's an E?TP. Maybe ESTP. It's really impossible to know without spending time with her.

People have made a strong(er) case for Scarlet Johannsen to be an ESTP here. So how does Streep compare to Johannsen? Are they the "same" sort of person, or are they different intrinsically? Can we use one to calibrate against the other?

 

[Economica]

People have made a strong(er) case for Scarlet Johannsen to be an ESTP here. So how does Streep compare to Johannsen? Are they the "same" sort of person, or are they different intrinsically? Can we use one to calibrate against the other?

Scarlett Johansson's an ISTP. Angelina Jolie is the ESTP.

(And IMO has no similarities with Meryl Streep.)

 

[INTJMom]

Yes, I saw it and I've seen many others. I stand by that I do not recognize any of my mother in Meryl Streep.

Can we always be sure we have an objective view of our own mother?

Hmm... I find myself wishing you would upload a video of yourself talking and gesturing (like this INFJ one). I wouldn't do it myself so I completely understand if you won't, but I'm afraid I'd have to see it in order to believe that an INTJ woman could come across like MS does. I see no Te in her whatsoever.

I am not sure what you mean. I DO gesture and talk with my arms and hands like that, though I thought it's because I am a visual learner. I also have some E, in that I sing on stage and enjoy it. I don't know what Te looks like, so I don't have an opinion on that.

Also, how about that quote on her role in the Manchurian Candidate (see the OP)? Judging not only by my mother but also by other female INTJs I know, that quote is saliently out of character for an INTJ. (INFJ I will buy.)

I would have a hard time trusting my judgment of someone's type based on a role they were playing.

I have seen an INFJ be ungracious/undiplomatic in precisely the way Meryl Streep is. I'm leaning more and more toward her being INFJ.

Really? I suppose I could be mistaken about that. I am an admirer of diplomacy, but perhaps I have been calling all diplomacy F and non-diplomacy T. In that, I could have been mistaken.

INFJ females and people who know (a mature) one extremely well, what say you?

If she is an INFJ then I feel sorry for her that she has not better developed her diplomacy, but I still admire her as an amazing artist.
LOVED her in Out Of Africa!

 

[Economica]

Can we always be sure we have an objective view of our own mother?

Touche. ... However, can we always be sure we have an objective view of ourselves?

I would have a hard time trusting my judgment of someone's type based on a role they were playing.

Did you actually read it? The quote is:

(On her role in The Manchurian Candidate) "I loved being someone so certain. Because certainty is just so attractive in people. To me, it's a completely bogus position - for me. Because, you know, I'm listening to every side. But it's so nice not to have to listen to all the different sides. To be so clear and on your track and sure. It's a fabulous thing. Unfortunately, it leads to fanaticism."

That's what I'm claiming is saliently out of character for an INTJ.

 

[Totenkindly]

Scarlett Johansson's an ISTP. Angelina Jolie is the ESTP.

Doh, you're right... My brain is snoozing.

(But, yes, my point still stands. )