Ever fall outside the box?

[FemMecha]

Okay, so it's fun and all to see how ones personality and behavior fits inside all the neat MBTI, Enneagram, big five, etc. labels, but what can you tell us about yourself that is just too weird (excuse me.. unique) to make it into the manuals? It's better for this thread to just let the pieces land outside the box, rather than finding some way to stick them back inside.

My own self is based on many dichotomies that create a kind of stasis or balance. For example, my thinking is strongly iNtuitive, but my life is surrounded by endeavors that express the abstract in concrete, sensory ways: music, art, dance, nature, savory flavors, etc. I also have anxiety issues balanced with bouts of complete fearlessness when the situation calls for it.

What is often most interesting about people are the dichotomies that exist within them. It is the fact that they aren't just simply one way or another that makes them unique. It is the way in which different fundamental aspects of personality interact within the individual that creates their uniqueness. For example, a person may lean more towards a thinking or feeling preference. This could be compared to a wrestling match in which one opponent is stronger. Perhaps it is not simply this, but it is the strategy in the way the two interact that creates the dynamics and interest of the match, i.e. the personality. For one person, it could be like watching two highly trained martial artists, for another like watching two sumo wrestlers, and for another a haphazard Jerry Springer style smack-down.

So what dichotomies do you possess, how do these interact, and/or is there anything else about you they didn't include in the manual.

 

[nightning]

Hmmm I'm not sure if this fits... INFJ is associated with holding a consistent inner vision about how the world should/ought to be. However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Okay, so it's fun and all to see how ones personality and behavior fits inside all the neat MBTI, Enneagram, big five, etc. labels, but what can you tell us about yourself that is just too weird (excuse me.. unique) to make it into the manuals? It's better for this thread to just let the pieces land outside the box, rather than finding some way to stick them back inside.

My own self is based on many dichotomies that create a kind of stasis or balance. For example, my thinking is strongly iNtuitive, but my life is surrounded by endeavors that express the abstract in concrete, sensory ways: music, art, dance, nature, savory flavors, etc. I also have anxiety issues balanced with bouts of complete fearlessness when the situation calls for it.

What is often most interesting about people are the dichotomies that exist within them. It is the fact that they aren't just simply one way or another that makes them unique. It is the way in which different fundamental aspects of personality interact within the individual that creates their uniqueness. For example, a person may lean more towards a thinking or feeling preference. This could be compared to a wrestling match in which one opponent is stronger. Perhaps it is not simply this, but it is the strategy in the way the two interact that creates the dynamics and interest of the match, i.e. the personality. For one person, it could be like watching two highly trained martial artists, for another like watching two sumo wrestlers, and for another a haphazard Jerry Springer style smack-down.

So what dichotomies do you possess, how do these interact, and/or is there anything else about you they didn't include in the manual.

There is no box to begin with it is all part of our self-imposed immaturity.

And as far as psychology that you've cited is concerned we have to keep the personality/temperament distinction in perspective. Personality is the way we are, temperament is what we were born with. Temperament is not what we are, but what we have.

 

[Eileen]

However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

(at least one other INFJ feels the same way - that's me)

 

[Totenkindly]

Hmmm I'm not sure if this fits... INFJ is associated with holding a consistent inner vision about how the world should/ought to be. However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

Well, there is the sense of a clear consistent vision at least in the holistic sense... although when I've been studying Ni lately, it seems to be more about recognizing that signs from the environment always have an angle on them and thus can't be taken at face value.

Where as Ne uses "signs" in the environment to follow patterns, trusting that the patterns are true and that the more patterns followed/recognized, the closer to truth one gets, Ni is associated with not really trusting the environment per se but knowing that every sign that one observes is someone's particular "spin" on something and has a slant, and thus one has to be able to step beyond it and look at the sign from many other angles. (Almost a distrust of the signs, rather than Ne's implicit trust.)

So when you say that you can hold two contradictory thoughts in your head and not question their validity, I see this as possible for Ni to do (at least if your comment is reframed a bit).

Just thought I would share that, since I'm currently reading about it and really trying to get a grasp of what "Ni" actually means.

 

[Littlelostnf]

Well, there is the sense of a clear consistent vision at least in the holistic sense... although when I've been studying Ni lately, it seems to be more about recognizing that signs from the environment always have an angle on them and thus can't be taken at face value.

Where as Ne uses "signs" in the environment to follow patterns, trusting that the patterns are true and that the more patterns followed/recognized, the closer to truth one gets, Ni is associated with not really trusting the environment per se but knowing that every sign that one observes is someone's particular "spin" on something and has a slant, and thus one has to be able to step beyond it and look at the sign from many other angles. (Almost a distrust of the signs, rather than Ne's implicit trust.)

So when you say that you can hold two contradictory thoughts in your head and not question their validity, I see this as possible for Ni to do (at least if your comment is reframed a bit).

Just thought I would share that, since I'm currently reading about it and really trying to get a grasp of what "Ni" actually means.

I'm an ENFJ and it is said that we MUST be around people or we suffer. That is inconsistant for me. I love people, I'm a teacher, I come from a big family yet there is nothing I like better than traveling on my own, eating out on my own and living on my own. I never understood my friends who needed to go "to the mall" with someone else or couldn't be alone for more than an hour or so. Spending a weekend with me and my books is lovely. If I connect for a moment with a 5 min phone call...that can last me for days. How come all the books say that ENFJ MUST have people around. That has never been the case for me...even in my super extroverted teens and early twenties.

 

[rhinosaur]

Well I thought I fit nicely into the INTP box, until I realized that I'm too reliable, and I enjoy closure and order almost as much as an INTJ.

I also exhibit a lot of risk-taking behavior and am as familiar with the "wild side" as I am with the typical INTP behaviors. That may be because I was raised by wolves.

 

[faith]

However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

Add me to the list with Eileen.

I actually don't think this is outside the box for INFJs.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I'm an ENFJ and it is said that we MUST be around people or we suffer. That is inconsistant for me. I love people, I'm a teacher, I come from a big family yet there is nothing I like better than traveling on my own, eating out on my own and living on my own. I never understood my friends who needed to go "to the mall" with someone else or couldn't be alone for more than an hour or so. Spending a weekend with me and my books is lovely. If I connect for a moment with a 5 min phone call...that can last me for days. How come all the books say that ENFJ MUST have people around. That has never been the case for me...even in my super extroverted teens and early twenties.

Fe is the most sociable function that there is. You found your salvation in Ni.

 

[Shimpei]

I'm not a typical ISFJ. Some people say I'm more like an INFJ.

 

[PuddleRiver]

Hmmm I'm not sure if this fits... INFJ is associated with holding a consistent inner vision about how the world should/ought to be. However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

Yep, same here. It can get quite confusing in here.

 

[Hellbourn3]

Add me to the list with Eileen.

I actually don't think this is outside the box for INFJs.

Yeah it's not...

Something that's unique about myself I suppose may be my somewhat egocentric nature; it's more greatly unique as I'm supposedly NF. I'm not sure if it could be completely thought of as egocentricity, but I'll give an example. Whenever something of great importance is placed upon me, I become ridiculously stressed to the point I become physically pained. However whenever someone close to me has something important that's stressing them, I try to detach myself as much as possible, and it makes me appear very apathetic.

My motivations are something key to note though. It's not that I really don't care; (most of the time I do) I think I'm just scared to bring out more anxiety in myself based on their problems; I can't allot everyone else's problems to affect me when mine already do to the caliber that is done. I think it really does come off as genuine apathy though; whenever this "mode" of myself surfaces I answer most questions of these people with either "I don't know" or "I don't care".

 

[Ivy]

Add me to the list with Eileen.

I actually don't think this is outside the box for INFJs.

I do this, too.

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

`I ca'n't believe that!' said Alice.

`Ca'n't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. `Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.'

Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said `one ca'n't believe impossible things.'

`I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

 

[FemMecha]

Hmmm I'm not sure if this fits... INFJ is associated with holding a consistent inner vision about how the world should/ought to be. However I frequently hold contradictory ideas in my head. That I can believe in two things that are at odds with each other and not question their validity. But I suspect other INFJs probably feel the same way too. I don't know.

It's entirely possible I do this, but if it's pointed out, I'm a bit horrified by it. I have serious doubts about the human mind's ability to be objective, so have a rather all encompassing drive to view my thinking from various, distanced perspectives. Of course now I'm inclined to examine why I would feel horrified.

Question for the INFJs that mentioned holding contradictory beliefs... What do you do when it's pointed out? Are you content with the contradiction? Does it depend on the situation?

 

[Xander]

Well I consistently score as an INTP and yet my FIRO-B results place me quite close to INFP however my F seems to be in poor shape because I go with my intuitive understanding of things and never check reality for confirmation.

It's kinda odd cause when I'm concentrating then my F dies a horrible death or comes to the fore (dpends on focus) and I'm very aware of reality but I can miss patterns easily.

Some say I'm a balanced person but I think I'm more likely to be a weeble. I rock all over the shop in a kinda 3 dimensional swingometer!

 

[nightning]

Question for the INFJs that mentioned holding contradictory beliefs... What do you do when it's pointed out? Are you content with the contradiction? Does it depend on the situation?

Typically I point out those contradictions myself as I ponder upon various ideas. So most of the time I'm okay with such values. For example, in turns of faith and religion, you can say I believe in many things that are not proven... in fact I truly think some ideas if examined too closely will fail to work. Yet I hold in my mind that I am a scientist, such that all theories should technically be closely scrutinized. That anything shown to be false should be rejected, but there still remains some values that I cannot bear to part with. In the case where both sides are equally balanced and there is no guilt involved, I feel this is just a part of who I am. That life is not worth examining if everything is strictly black and white.

At other times, I feel guilty for holding onto beliefs that goes against social norms. In particular those that concern morality... what are virtues and what are vices? Is it okay to be selfish? It's the internal struggle to figure out where I stand that's discomforting rather than the act of having contradictory beliefs.

 

[FemMecha]

Typically I point out those contradictions myself as I ponder upon various ideas. So most of the time I'm okay with such values. For example, in turns of faith and religion, you can say I believe in many things that are not proven... in fact I truly think some ideas if examined too closely will fail to work. Yet I hold in my mind that I am a scientist, such that all theories should technically be closely scrutinized. That anything shown to be false should be rejected, but there still remains some values that I cannot bear to part with. In the case where both sides are equally balanced and there is no guilt involved, I feel this is just a part of who I am. That life is not worth examining if everything is strictly black and white.

At other times, I feel guilty for holding onto beliefs that goes against social norms. In particular those that concern morality... what are virtues and what are vices? Is it okay to be selfish? It's the internal struggle to figure out where I stand that's discomforting rather than the act of having contradictory beliefs.

That explanation works. Thanks.

I tend to deal with analyzing subjective systems that contain objective components like the arts and psychology. That is my focus in life. Because of this, I don't see things in black-and-white, but entirely in grey. My mind is deeply agnostic in every respect. If I hold two conflicting beliefs, I will consider each possessing a certain degree of probability. In the absence of all conclusions, there is no conflict, or perhaps continual conflict depending how you look at it. In my mind there are opposing poles towards which ideas lie, so that everything exists on a continuum. This appears consistent with observations of the natural world. It is difficult in a way for my mind to exist in such a continual state of flux, but impossible for it not to.

For example when I encounter a person, I consider many scenarios that explain their behavior and interaction towards me. As I gather more information, a clearer picture emerges approaching a conclusion, but never reaching one entirely. I operate on the assumption that another individual cannot ever be known entirely. It is a lonely thought, so there is still that little part of me that hopes I am mistaken about this.

 

[Kyrielle]

It's entirely possible I do this, but if it's pointed out, I'm a bit horrified by it. I have serious doubts about the human mind's ability to be objective, so have a rather all encompassing drive to view my thinking from various, distanced perspectives. Of course now I'm inclined to examine why I would feel horrified.

Question for the INFJs that mentioned holding contradictory beliefs... What do you do when it's pointed out? Are you content with the contradiction? Does it depend on the situation?

I get uncomfortable. (I seem to be using that word a lot lately.) I try to explain how I can be undecided and conflicted with contradicting beliefs, and either the other person will understand, or they'll look at me in confusion. It's gotten to the point where I just go ahead and explain the contradicting beliefs together so no one can point it out and put me on the spot. Most of the time I question the reason why someone would do this... But my boyfriend tends to point out when I'm being contradictory, and I know he does it so that I will look at these beliefs and begin to analyse why I believe the way I do and maybe there are modes of thinking that don't apply to my life anymore. The process still makes me uncomfortable, but at least I know he's not doing it for any malign reason.

 

[niffer]

There is no box to begin with it is all part of our self-imposed immaturity.

And as far as psychology that you've cited is concerned we have to keep the personality/temperament distinction in perspective. Personality is the way we are, temperament is what we were born with. Temperament is not what we are, but what we have.

 

[nightning]

For example when I encounter a person, I consider many scenarios that explain their behavior and interaction towards me. As I gather more information, a clearer picture emerges approaching a conclusion, but never reaching one entirely. I operate on the assumption that another individual cannot ever be known entirely. It is a lonely thought, so there is still that little part of me that hopes I am mistaken about this.

Interesting... I'm not sure if I'm going off-topic on this (probably am)... to never take anything for the absolute truth, that the world functions on probabilities... is that related to Ni? Because you describe exactly how I see things. In fact it's one of the ways I account for belief for supernatural incidences... it's all based on probability. If you will it... that enough people will it, it alters probability of outcomes. Blah! Crazy thoughts. Nevermind...

The box is just means figuratively typical behaviour... people aren't really stuck inside boxes... just beyond a range about the "mean" of some sort...