Eric B
ⒺⓉⒷ
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,621
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 548
- Instinctual Variant
- sp/sx
There is often confusion about how these concepts relate; if they're the same thing, or altogether different.
Those energized by the external world (Jungian definition of I/E) will naturally tend to be more outgoing, and those energized by the inner world will be more reserved. (Classic temperament "traits").
Part of the problem is the generalization of some of the terms used for I/E, such as “assertive†["withdrawn", "gregarious", etc].
There are, of course, reasons why an I or an E might not act those ways. Aside from personal experience, there are even other things built into type. Like the other social temperament factor people vs task focus (basically, Agreeableness). That's both directing/informing, and structure/motive, and ties to both T/F and J/P.
A social or cognitive extrovert who is task focused will ultimately be focused more on his own goals than the outer world of people. His dominant function will engage the outer world, but he might not necessarily make him all gregarious with people.
Then, Cooperative/Pragmatic is like another level of expressive/reserved. An introvert who is pragmatic will become assertive at times when pushing something that “worksâ€.
Also, from here: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/116055-mbti-four-temperaments-4.html#post2987818
Someone posted a link to this good temperament site I had never seen before: http://archive.fighunter.com/?page=temperaments
Here's one clarifying the difference between Si and Fe regarding "social norms":
Si is an irrational perception of stored tangible data (experience, learned values), and Fe is a rational function that makes decisions based on external standards such as the values of the local environment.
So both can process the same data (in this case, “social normsâ€, and be reflected in similar behavior). It's just that the process itself is still different from each other.
Generally, a cognitive introvert or extravert (defined purely by a dominant introverted or extraverted function) will likely be a social introvert or extrovert (I/E as standalone "classic temperament" or Big Five factor), through the Interaction Styles, which are tied to I/E.
Those energized by the external world (Jungian definition of I/E) will naturally tend to be more outgoing, and those energized by the inner world will be more reserved. (Classic temperament "traits").
Part of the problem is the generalization of some of the terms used for I/E, such as “assertive†["withdrawn", "gregarious", etc].
There are, of course, reasons why an I or an E might not act those ways. Aside from personal experience, there are even other things built into type. Like the other social temperament factor people vs task focus (basically, Agreeableness). That's both directing/informing, and structure/motive, and ties to both T/F and J/P.
A social or cognitive extrovert who is task focused will ultimately be focused more on his own goals than the outer world of people. His dominant function will engage the outer world, but he might not necessarily make him all gregarious with people.
Then, Cooperative/Pragmatic is like another level of expressive/reserved. An introvert who is pragmatic will become assertive at times when pushing something that “worksâ€.
Also, from here: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/116055-mbti-four-temperaments-4.html#post2987818
Someone posted a link to this good temperament site I had never seen before: http://archive.fighunter.com/?page=temperaments
This is a good thing to keep in mind for the so-called "introverted extravert" EN's (three of which are Choleric in one area and/or the other) who struggle with I/E because "they don't always want to be bothered with people".A melancholic [introverted, task focused] may tend towards being a loner because he is stifled by other people and internally frustrated by their imperfections or 'not understanding' or something, and/or he may reject others out of self-deprecation; because he feels that nobody would want to be around him, so he doesn't try to assert himself or inflict himself on others. He may feel upset about being a loner sometimes.
Someone cholerically inclined [extraverted, task focused], however, may be a loner because they feel that they don't NEED friends; subconsciously, it'd be assessing such a need as a weakness and declaring yourself a loner shows you're above such a base need and above other people, too. Others might not be good enough for you, or you may have an abrasive personality that they find unappealing, leaving you unpopular.
Here's one clarifying the difference between Si and Fe regarding "social norms":
The functions are but different perspectives of each situation. We get into reducing them to just behaviors, and that causes confusion.
Si is an irrational perception of stored tangible data (experience, learned values), and Fe is a rational function that makes decisions based on external standards such as the values of the local environment.
So both can process the same data (in this case, “social normsâ€, and be reflected in similar behavior). It's just that the process itself is still different from each other.