Little Linguist
Striving for balance
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 6,880
- MBTI Type
- xNFP
- Instinctual Variant
- sx/so
Someone pinch me and tell me this is not one of those weird, bizarre dreams I generally have....
Use your N man!
No need for logical structure obviously. It is whatever your imagination shall conjure! FEEL! It is all a matter of FEEL my friend!
As stated in the OP, you can spin it out to be any cause you want, irrespectively of content of the argument! Such is the power of human emotion, I fall on my knees in my humble admiration.
We clearly need both Thinking and Feeling, though just a lot more Thinking than Feeling as Feeling if left unchecked will become torrential. It requires strict supervision.
Also, scholars have a much less clear idea of what Jesus, Buddha and Confucius taught than they do of what philosophers and scientists that I have mentioned taught.
The NF caricature I have in mind is not one that lacks Thinking altogether, but one who supresses it to a great extent. We see many examples of these in the world, and even on this board. They are the ones responsible for the problems cited above.
If we truly have serious intentions about making the world a better place we ought to stop and think, organize our mindset into something coherent and then see how this could be implemented to the external world. It should be founded upon a clear-cut rationale concerning making the world a better place, not torrential passions.
I am?
Oh dear. I hate it when that happens.
Well, to be obvious: I didn't think we were discussing the absurd extremities between pure cold logic and utter metaphysical fluff, I thought we were discussing the more insidiously inherent subjective bias in the observational powers of any consciousness that is not omniscient and thus has no capability to see all things from all sides at one time.
And you have no way to evaluate the "objectivity" of your logic, either, as you operate within it rather than outside of it.
To whit, your "logic" might scream that the ghost is not there.
But you have no way to know it's not.
...and yeah, you'll never be a Jedi.
Never!
Unfortunately your original post doesn't resemble 2+2 = 4 as much as it resembles "IT FEELS TO ME THERE IS A GHOST IN THIS ROOM! I Just know it!". You have an irrational dislike of feeling that is even more extreme than your irrational viewpoints of inferiority toward anything that isn't INTP. Your only reason that feelers are bad is that they are the opposite of thinkers. That is not a sufficiently good reason. You're going to have to give a better reason that "I just know it!"
1. being a feeler does not mean you make all your decisions in the heart of emotional turmoil. all it means, is that you make VALUE BASED DECISIONS. THEY CAN STILL BE RATIONAL AND STAND ON THEIR OWN AS MUCH AS 2 + 2 = 4: altruism, nurturing, forgiveness, not trying to fuck everyone over that you deal with in business just because you can. value based decisions can be still rational and/or irrational in the way 2 + 2 can equal 5 and 2 + 2 cannot equal 6.
just because some idiot over in isheeevamedrawewrs islama land has made an irrational use of value based judgements does not mean that feeling is inherently an irrational function. "logic" Te, Se... hell, "any function users" can be just as bad at creating horrible logic to justify some terrible idea or justice.
2.
"All worldviews founded upon emotion and not clear-cut rationale are bound to degenerate into chicanery. They will later be used as an instrument to promote a political agenda of this or that delegation. The Taliban, the Ku Klux Klan, modern Christianity, are all founded on amorphous values and for political reasons insist on proselytizing to the end of convincing others to embrace their values. They are all mendacious and rapacious and I think will end up destroying civilization. All springing out of the root of NF causes."
Just because some OTHER idiot misuses the original texts or drives a cause beyond where its original intent was, does not indict the ORIGINAL MOVEMENT:
example: there is very little biblical basis for most of what the catholic church does administratively and powers of their ritual. Therefore i would say it is wrong to blame jesus for THEIR screw ups. The crusades were fought by mostly non christian and was more of a cultural war. the crusader armies even sacked european cities just for the pilage (indicative of their true motives in joining the crusades). there is a huge and obvious difference between accusing the neighbor widow of killing your cow and actaul demonic happenings (the witch trials are another horrible way to "crucify" christianity).
3. we live in a very dumb world. the average IQ is actually SCARY when you think about what kind of intellect the avg person is working with. I would argue that if everyone were a "T" trying to be "logical" all the time with over half the pop with less than a 100 IQ, we'd actually be more likely to get these crazy ideologies you attribute to F's because they would find scary ways to "logically" justify suppressed feelings.
4. I would argue that more world evils are committed by T people like yourself, who suppress and then justify their weak value judgment faculties with their overly trusted logical rationalizing of what they do....
5.
the real problem is not that people make value judgments. the problem is when people think they can rationalize EVERYTHING. and so rather than analyze how these value judgments affect people, they just spend time devising what sounds the most logical:
example evidence: EUGENICS. eugenics actaully logically makes a TON of LOGICAL sense for the human race. round up every fat perosn, every AIDS patient, every retard, every Bi polar and euthanize them. The best genes will continue on for the best of the human race.
eugenics is my best example for what a world of T's without value judgments would look like....
Feeling has to have a kind of rationale behind, or never would have been a judging function.
I must mention the implication that Jesus sought approbation from men is false. He sought the approval that comes from God, not from men.?
Well said. (Behold, BW's Feeling!). But why should I not be a skeptic or a fideist? Can you show that rational justification is possible, and that it is necessary in order to achieve the good?
Of course we could all be NT's and the world would be a miserable bitter place
Lies.And everything would work out fine because no one would care about how miserable and bitter it was.
Check my thread 'How rational is Feeling'. I've covered this in detail. Jung was careless to run it together with Thinking as a 'rational' function. It is certainly not rational in the colloquial sense of the term.
Of course we could all be NT's and the world would be a miserable bitter place
And everything would work out fine because no one would care about how miserable and bitter it was.
...
do you know that you're supporting BW's case?
Yessir.I think she meant that it wouldn't 'work out fine' if we were all NTs
I love how the we are championing ourselves against science. Fuck science.
It is whatever your imagination shall conjure! FEEL! It is all a matter of FEEL my friend! IT FEELS TO ME THERE IS A GHOST IN THIS ROOM! I Just know it! Trust the Feel!