I'm bouncing everything off what people are posting here btw, so even if something seems redundant to mention; it's all going in and either giving me awareness on something I didn't notice before, or solidifying something I already know.
check out this 9 description. it sounds like a lot of what you've said:
Yeah, which is why I'm struggling with this.
But is showing to also be somewhat a reason against 9 as the uncertainty and questions raised about my type is not something I want to drag out. I don't think I'm indecisive, I want to keep options open always but I am happy to make an interim decision at any time and simply leave it open to being shifted with further information.
can definitely be sure you're in the head type now. I typed your OP from the other thread as 5.
But how would a 9 that is out of touch with their gut appear? Is it something that would be unrecognisable to others or just the individual in question?
When calm, 5s can be masterful, they will invest the effort to become competent, and they will often refuse to be satisfied with that competence, keep in mind that this could be at anything, from driving, cooking, making paper planes, throwing knives to reading, video games, movies, TV shows. Often 5s will skim over the top like a 7, preferring variety to focus. Like not so long ago, I gathered a music collection that includes everything I could get my hands on, a huge list of games that will take me 4 years to get through, I want to learn to cook, I want to learn guitar and piano, I want to read as many books as I can get my grubby little paws on. But for a 5 to progress, they need to realize that they have to cut back on the fantasies, take control of reality and actively carve themselves a path. Taking control of reality includes things like checking your bank account
, doing these things reduces anxiety, which will lead to more focus.
Avoiding reality doesn't make it go away
this is true. I relate to what you've written there.
7s will naturally carve that path, they see everything as something they need, and they go out of their way to get it. In this way, they are very practical people. They see something new and they get their hands dirty, they want to try it, so they become experienced at many practical things (like cooking, sports, wood working etc.). Which unfortunately for them, isn't always the necessary items, they might go out, work their asses off and then suddenly splurge it EVERYWHERE. Not much holding back. This is why they can become addicted to drugs and alcohol, they want to fill the void and obtain everything they can, trying new things.
I don't relate to the addictive nature of 7, not really, if I do something bad for myself as a habit it's more for laziness of not stopping than the desire to fill a void. I relate more to over eating, or more often under eating due to lack of awareness which is something I've seen associated with E9. I can literally go days without eating until something external triggers an awareness that I'm starving.
When stressed, they are more likely to get angry and snap at people (disintegration to 1).
I don't snap, I would have to feel very threatened for that and I would probably immediately feel bad and apologise or make it into a joke
They aren't necessarily people-persons, there is nothing in this that describes them as such, but people can be new and exiting to them. I think 7 so/sx are the truly extroverted 7s, just look at Halla on this site
. 7 sp is more independent, but still very adventurous, just not necessarily directed towards people.
I love people, I'm not that outgoing as you've seen, but I am happy to be called a (quite) people person. New people are totally exciting!
For Self Preservationists, both 5 and 7 like to gather comforts, one will do it with more focus and patience, the other with more vigor and impatience.
I am patient when it comes to others, impatient when it comes to myself and what I want. I am highly impulsive that's for sure.
Btw, what helped you pick 5 over 9 for yourself?
It seems to me that the key here is that you haven't been able to fully develop into yourself, which means you are a 7 or a 9 that hasn't fully developed a key part of your personality.
Yeah, and that bothers me as lack of self-perception or awareness is not something I'm okay with, but I can't figure out what I am not aware of or how to articulate my inability to find my core self in order to move ahead. I've always been one to get external sources to show me my blind spots, but in this situation it's like even if someone told me what it was I still wouldn't recognise it as something within me.
...I think you are a 7 (of some sort) who was just withdrew for w/e reason as a child.
The question is - are you a natural 9 that's been inhibited to develop 7 qualities, or are you a natural 7 who has been inhibited to develop 9 qualities. Since 9s are the dissociated / disconnected / difficulty asserting their identity types, I want to say that the latter would be my *first* guess. Does that make any sense?
Both of you have suggested the same thing, and if that is the question then my automatic/instinctive guess has been the latter, this is something I took into consideration previously when 9 would score higher than 7, I saw it as repression.
But the issue is I don't feel repressed now, if I was truly energetic underneath it all it would have (re)surfaced now that I am able to be myself, without depression, and happy and comfortable in my own skin.
Which is where I question if 7 is my 'ideal', how I want to see myself as opposed to how I truly am. I've put on an actor's face for most of my life, pretending to be someone that I am not, I was a great people pleaser always showing what was appropriate. Being light and funny and surface served to keep people at bay and to stave off confrontations.
It's hard to separate the depression and lack of understanding who I really was from my personality as it was all encompassing and bigger than my personality in so many important ways, but for 15 years my approach to life was to shut everything out, I knew this was not okay though so unless you lived with me you would not know this, I would be shiny when I went out and even though I felt numb I would give the impression that I was full of life. It spills into every single aspect of my life.
One other idea: Go through the health of the enneagram levels here:
http://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personlitytype9
http://sites.google.com/site/upatel8/personalitytype7
And evaluate the Levels of Development, paying particular attention to the “fears†column. (Basically, you start at level 1, and the level 1 fear leads to level 2 behavior, and the level 2 fear left unchecked leads to level 3 behavior, and so on. It might be a good idea to read through both lists and see which one, and which level of development, seems to fit better.
Enneagram Seven
L1 Fear: Of deprivation and being trapped in emotional pain
I don't fear being deprived as I don't believe I ever will be, but if I am I would adapt. I also don't really fear emotional pain as I simply immaturely avoid allowing myself to acknowledge that I am experiencing it, even though that is actually impossible to do I make a grand effort of it.
2. That their freedom and happiness will be lost, their needs will not be met.
I don't fear this, I have eternal optimism that things will simply work out.
3. Of missing out on other worth-while things and experiences (that what they have isn't enough)
I don't fear that this will ever happen, and I am happy with experiencing whatever I do get to experience, I do not focus on what I'm missing at that time, only what I'm experiencing.
4. That they will be bored or frustrated (and negative feelings will arise)
I don't fear boredom, and I don't fear frustration as much as hate experiencing it. I can't stand anger.
5. That the environment will not provide them with what they want ("scarcity thinking")
I have too much faith that it will, and if it doesn't I will avoid facing that reality.
6. That their actions are bringing them pain and unhappiness
It's not a fear as much as a simple reality at times.
7. Of losing their capacity for pleasure and happiness (that they cannot enjoy anything)
That will never happen.
8. That they have irreparably ruined themselves and their lives
I'm too removed from bad things to think that.
I relate to the outward expressions of Enneagram 7 from level 1 through 4, but not the fears or desires.
Enneagram Nine:
L1 Fear: Of loss and separation (of being cut off from everything)
L2 Fear: Of losing their peace of mind
I don't recognise those fears.
L3 Fear: Of conflicts (internal and external)
That one I do.
L4 Fear: Of any significant changes/ disruptions in their world
I can be resistant to things that would disrupt my peace.
L5 Fear: Of having to exert themselves in any way, of leaving their comfortable patterns
I don't recognise this as a fear.
When under stress/in a bad spot the following is me downward spiral, very me:
L6 Desire: To downplay the importance of problems in their world
L6 Fear: Of being forced by reality to deal with their problems
L7 Desire: To defend their illusion that everything is okay
L7 Fear: Of acknowledging reality at all — particularly their own role in problems
L8 Desire: To block out of awareness anything that could affect them
L8 Fear: That what has happened cannot be undone — fear of reality itself
L9 Desire: To eliminate their awareness (to save their illusions)
...Nines commune with their inner sensations (identifications), maintaining their sense of self by living through an identification with another person. Hence they correspond to the Jungian introverted sensation type.
This introversion accounts for the inner life of Nines, which is largely out of view, protected in the inner sanctum of their psyches so that it cannot be easily disturbed or changed.
It is in their dealings with the outside world that Nines can resemble Sevens.
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/members/misid/7and9.asp