Xander
Lex Parsimoniae
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 4,463
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 9w8
This is part of the STFU process here but from the other side.Maybe Ts that are ranting want advice, I dunno. I don't think Fs generally do. Unless they ask, but maybe not even then. Fs, I think, want to bleed off some of the emotion so they can think clearly themselves (they don't need you to think for them), to hear themselves out so they know what they are thinking and feeling and it helps to have someone to listen because then it doesn't feel so much like you are talking to yourself and you can maybe believe that someone cares about what you're feeling, or for you to was the dang dishes.
Once they have vented, sometimes it's okay to brainstorm with them.
But honestly, if there is anything more annoying than for some idiot to try to solve your problems for you when you are trying to vent, I don't know what it would be. God, how patronizing can you get??
You see similarly when a person is being emotional around an F they can tend to empathise and get caught up in it, a T will get caught up in a persons thinking. It gets difficult when someone is explaining something like a problem to NOT get involved and try and sort out a solution for/ with them. Similar to if someone goes through a trial/ tragedy it's difficult for an F not to feel upset when the other is in tears.
Imagine this... a person is confused and is "venting". Your a T. Their thinking is now invading your brain. You are now partially confused as a person with empathy would be upset. Now you want to remove this confusion almost as much as the original person does. So you feel compelled to try to solve this problem.
The reflex can be overcome but one helpful step is to learn to mentally say STFU to the person venting. Similar to an F who must recognise exterior influences on their mood and attempt to ... well prioritise, a T must learn the same with thought and so when someone is venting and no solution will sate their thirst for negativity then you should try to reduce the impact of this external source of thinking.
(Note. This is probably coming out a little malformed and unrefined so please excuse the wholes in the thinking.. I'll try to fill them in later.)
Ah. Yes I'm afraid I can do that on occasion. I can see the larger picture but lack the ability to break it down sometimes. Hence you get quite a complex picture with connections all over the place. You should see my database designsXander ~ in reading your last response I can't help but get the feeling that you're talking specifically to INTP's b/c there is so much 'information' in that post that it's hard to wade through it all. Hard to not look at it personally and hard to bite your tongue and move forward. It was a difficult read is what I am saying.
Oh and it's phrased in quite a clinical and deliberate way not to antagonise or annoy but simply to try and make things clear.
They are presented as rule for one major reason, that makes the clearest picture. However, as I've recently realised, rules are not as hard as they may seem. The only difference between a rule and a guideline is in the recognition of variables. A guideline sets out the preferred or optimal path and often gives situations where a variation or contradiction of the guideline should be employed. A rule makes no such definitions and yet has to be taken as a guideline because as has been proven, in regard to interaction, there are no rules which do not bend and break. As such those specific four stages should be seen as premises, principles and guides. If applied in specific and without regard to context or subject then they're practically useless.
Perhaps if I phrased like so..
What's troubling you?
Why does that mean so much to you?
Can I help you to solve this trouble or would you prefer I just listen for a bit?
Is that a better way of phrasing the theory?
That's not meant in a patronising manner btw. I'm just .. well doing what everyone does I guess. My position is best and that is to view ideas and concepts without prejudice. Ergo I try to get others to do likewise. If I didn't do this then I'd be uncaring about their perspective as I wouldn't be trying to get them to the same level of achievement as myself (indulge me here, I know it sounds incredibly arrogant). If I didn't believe that it was the best approach in the whole world then I wouldn't do it myself.
I could have given a hundred different reasons why I was being benevolent and such but realistically that's the base motivation.