[MBTI General] NF and NT... drawn together like moth to flame

[sakuraba]

I read that somewhere before.

What is it that brings them together? Besides the obvious "N".

 

[Athenian200]

Anything I could offer would be a description of N... but okay.

We're both attracted to patterns, and the reason that we tend to come together is because we tend to provide the material the other needs. We need NT's to create systems for dealing with patterns, so that we can apply those systems in ways that help us describe and come to terms with our feelings. In turn, once we've applied those systems to that end successfully, we can use them to help the NT's get in touch with their emotions in a way that isn't as repugnant to them as what's typically offered by Sensors. Then they can refine the system even more, and give it back to us, in a cycle of refining and reapplying.

That's my guess, anyway.

 

[wolfmaiden14]

I think it might have something to do with how the N works within each and the need to follow it.

an NF goes by their intuition, but often doesn't know how to make a plan to go about manifesting them, so the NT can add the logic and realism into the equation.

on the other hand, an NT gets those intuitions, but sits there trying to justify why they "feel" the way they do. The NF can help them piece together their "feelings" enough to give them reason and inspire them with a more abstract sense to just go for it.

EDIT: soo..I posted about the same time as Athenian, saying it seems, something very similar.. but I'm just going to leave it as further thought.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

NFs can understand NT's thoughts, and they think about similar things. They both have an intense drive for self-improvement. NTs can sort and mold the NF's ideas into something coherent (thank god) and NF can lavishly praise the NT, which the NT, suffering from low self-esteem and persistent self-doubt, eats up like Ivy's sandwiches.

 

[sakuraba]

this is what an ENFJ said to me earlier today...............



Her: all i wanted to say was i think ur cute and i liked what i know so far of ur personality, i think i have some things in common with u and i made it clear to u that i was interested in getting to know u better

Me: hmm jus out of curiousity what things do u think we have in common?

Her: honestly im not gonna answer that because i know inside (I swear), I pick up on things quick.





It's not the first time with an NF. There seems to just be an almost immediate connection.

Hard to describe. Kind of like "hey, youre like me, arent you...thats weird, i thought i was alone here"

 

[Night]

My wife is an ENFJ.

She is able to analyze emotions and empathize much more efficiently than I can.

Conversely, I provide the esoteric systems appreciation that she (sometimes) lacks.

 

[FDG]

Are you speaking about 16-yo on a dating website, sakuraba?

 

[Domino]

I'm attracted to NTs for their ability to cut through haze, their informed constructive objectivity and their nearly bullet-proof humor.

I can only speak from personal experience on why NTs like NFs. I've been told they like the "heat" (I always get images of turtles sunning pleasantly on rocks... lol). They like the emotional support. They like the sensation of empathic connection.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

NFs make me feel like a human being.

 

[runvardh]

NFs make me feel like a human being.

it's because you are

 

[Domino]

NFs make me feel like a human being.

You know. I've been told that. Several occasions. Had more than one ENTP look me in the eye and seriously tell me that. The Is haven't been as vocal, but it's the same sort of fusion, like a roaming body meeting it's severed spirit. They seem very bullet-proof to me in general, but when one turns up on my doorstep, I know something's wrong. My ENTPs haven't been "criers" so to speak, but I've had a few of them crack on me and I knew it was one of those intensely personal, potentially crushing moments for them. If they aren't acting "logically" or emotionally casual, they seem afraid sometimes. I like to be a safe place for them to split open if they need it. They know I won't hurt them and that I won't let them be hurt as long as I'm there.

My NTJ best friends call/come around when they need some affirmation. They aren't the types to be "cuddled" really (ok, the ENTJ loves it and gets it aplenty from my sister as I'm not very naturally affectionate that way) so I listen to them and genuinely support their emotional responses which they seem to be most unsure of in their realm of linear being.

 

[Athenian200]

NFs make me feel like a human being.

Do you like or dislike that?

The things being said on this thread are unusual, because one of the most annoying things I've noted about some NT's (particularly INTP's) is that they can't take compliments/sympathy very well. Sometimes they can take them if you imply them rather than express them directly, but usually it makes them all embarrassed and freaked out. It makes it really hard for me to relate to them unless I just limit myself to discussing a particular topic, like computers or psychology.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I like that...

 

[autumn]

I think it might have something to do with how the N works within each and the need to follow it.

an NF goes by their intuition, but often doesn't know how to make a plan to go about manifesting them, so the NT can add the logic and realism into the equation.

on the other hand, an NT gets those intuitions, but sits there trying to justify why they "feel" the way they do. The NF can help them piece together their "feelings" enough to give them reason and inspire them with a more abstract sense to just go for it.

EDIT: soo..I posted about the same time as Athenian, saying it seems, something very similar.. but I'm just going to leave it as further thought.

Yes. Both this quote and the post by Athenian200 right before it are both very insightful. As I said in another discussion here somewhere, I think the primary reason for the NF/NT affinity is the N. This is huge. The secondary reason would be the T/F. I think this is because the N they share makes them similar enough to share a deep unspoken understanding of each other on a certain level, and the T and F that are different are different enough, and in such a way, as to be complementary, especially when combined with the shared N.

autumn

 

[autumn]

NFs make me feel like a human being.

Oh, now I look just like that smiley! I could say the same about NTs. NTs are awesome.

autumn (who can't figure out how to put multiple quotes in a post)

 

[Domino]

Do you like or dislike that?

The things being said on this thread are unusual, because one of the most annoying things I've noted about some NT's (particularly INTP's) is that they can't take compliments/sympathy very well. Sometimes they can take them if you imply them rather than express them directly, but usually it makes them all embarrassed and freaked out. It makes it really hard for me to relate to them unless I just limit myself to discussing a particular topic, like computers or psychology.

How out of balance are they? Yes, there are those types. I've had several occasions to regret expressing even minor restrained sympathy when I've had an NT blow up in my face. I think it's an issue of that specific person being out of balance even when they aren't under pressure. I have a friend who's never been good with social stuff (makes enemies and does this 'me against the world' routine I could wring his neck for). He's an ENTP who wants your support and sympathy, but can turn on you in a boiling flash with "Don't patronize/talk down/pity me" which, of course, isn't what's even remotely happening, but he takes it that way because he's emotionally stunted, reactionary under pressure, and, well, a jerk. I can call him that -- I've dealt with him on this off and on for 10 years. So I get what you mean.

They aren't all like that though. I would try to look past the ones who do.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Oh, now I look just like that smiley! I could say the same about NTs. NTs are awesome.

autumn (who can't figure out how to put multiple quotes in a post)

There's a little icon next to the QUOTE button. It looks like a page with a quotation symbol on it. That's how you get multiple quotes.
Once you've selected all the posts you wanted to quote, just use the normal QUOTE button on one of them, and it will take you to the message writing page.

 

[Athenian200]

How out of balance are they? Yes, there are those types. I've had several occasions to regret expressing even minor restrained sympathy when I've had an NT blow up in my face. I think it's an issue of that specific person being out of balance even when they aren't under pressure. I have a friend who's never been good with social stuff (makes enemies and does this 'me against the world' routine I could wring his neck for). He's an ENTP who wants your support and sympathy, but can turn on you in a boiling flash with "Don't patronize/talk down/pity me" which, of course, isn't what's even remotely happening, but he takes it that way because he's emotionally stunted, reactionary under pressure, and, well, a jerk. I can call him that -- I've dealt with him on this off and on for 10 years. So I get what you mean.

They aren't all like that though. I would try to look past the ones who do.

ENTP's and INTJ's do this more when out of balance, but they seem closer to fine when they are balanced... I don't know any ENTJ's, but even the most balanced INTP's I've known overreact to emotion. In fact, the closer you are to them, the more your sentiment overwhelms them. I'm not sure, but I think INTP's are often more comfortable discussing something personal with a stranger than with someone they know. I've thought of this idea of an "inverted radius" to describe it, at least with one particular person that I know...

It seems like this person tends to not be as affected by explicit expressions from people they don't know well or aren't as close to, and thus find it easier to ignore or give a short response rather than correcting them. But the closer they get to them, and the better they know them, the more they need to be authentic/honest with them, and the increasing strength of the emotional attachment is such that it's typically more overwhelming for them to deal with emotion emanating from people closer to them. This is because they begin to value their emotions more, and this makes it more overwhelming for them when they perceive the emotions, especially in an explicit expression.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I just don't care about people I don't know, and I know that they don't affect my life.

People who are a part of my life are different.
I have a hard time showing them emotions because I'm afraid of pissing them off/humiliating myself.

But it really depends on the relationship. If I'm open with someone from the beginning, then I will continue to be as the relationships strengthens.

 

[Domino]

ENTP's and INTJ's do this more when out of balance, but they seem closer to fine when they are balanced... I don't know any ENTJ's, but even the most balanced INTP's I've known overreact to emotion. In fact, the closer you are to them, the more your sentiment overwhelms them. I'm not sure, but I think INTP's are often more comfortable discussing something personal with a stranger than with someone they know. I've thought of this idea of an "inverted radius" to describe it, at least with one particular person that I know...

It seems like this person tends to not be as affected by explicit expressions from people they don't know well or aren't as close to, and thus find it easier to ignore or give a short response rather than correcting them. But the closer they get to them, and the better they know them, the more they need to be authentic/honest with them, and the increasing strength of the emotional attachment is such that it's typically more overwhelming for them to deal with emotion emanating from people closer to them. This is because they begin to value their emotions more, and this makes it more overwhelming for them when they perceive the emotions, especially in an explicit expression.

I know my INTJ can be very dismissive with most people. He falls prey to the emotional overload though with the few close friends he has. Like when I'm very very sick, he frequently worries A LOT, and tries to contain it, but the worry winds up eating at him if I remain sick for a long time. He becomes very depressed and unresponsive, and has to take more and more time alone. The upset drains him badly. This absolutely does NOT happen with him when he's around just Whomever Off The Street. It seems to be unfortunately counterproductive to forming a lasting, deep attachment. It frustrates him.