Random Star Trek thoughts

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think those were meant to be a homage to the officer uniforms of the Age of Sail. They have a very "retro" look about them as opposed to the various starfleet uniforms features on the shows, which seem to reflect what was considered futuristic looking a

I had almost the opposite impression. In season 1, TNG seemed like it was trying to figure out what it wanted to be. I thought season 2 was much more settled and focused. I wish Tasha Yar had stayed on longer. Data was a trope at first, and really had to grow into a believable character. I had little patience for Troi. There was still too much stereotyping in that show.


I preferred the maroon jacket uniforms, too. The TMP uniforms looked like Dr. Dentons, complete with footies. TMP as a movie, however, was extremely underrated, and is probably one of the best in the franchise.

I still prefer the MAroon dress uniforms. the only other ST uniforms I like are the Post First Contact because they have a vest.

I think the TMP variant with the pants and tunic were the most functional looking of any Star Trek uniform, maybe with the exception of the Enterprise jumpsuits. They look like believable day-to-day wear for what are essentially futuristic NASA officers. I also liked that there was a lot of variation, like some officers in TMP had short sleeve variants, and so on. The maroons represent the gradual shifting towards a more warlike, militaristic vision of starfleet that continued with the TNG films and later seasons of DS9/Voyager.

No thanks. It's about being explorers first and military defense second, not the other way around. There's a trace of glorification of colonialism in the films from Wrath of Khan onwards, from the maroon dress jackets to the Horner score evoking images of sailing ships. I realize Horatio Hornblower was always part of the DNA and those are still great films, I just lament what if eventually led to with the franchise emphasizing wars and big bad villains over cooperating to understand the unknown (Voyage Home an exception).

That said, I like later variants added to the maroon line, like the captain's vest jacket, and the away team jackets from II are pretty cool. My least favorite is the maroon minus the turtleneck and belt seen on the Enterprise C crew. That was just lazy and I'd have like to have seen a better looking transition from the maroons to the TNG spandex.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Worf's reaction to Wesley's arrival XD

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think the TMP variant with the pants and tunic were the most functional looking of any Star Trek uniform, maybe with the exception of the Enterprise jumpsuits. They look like believable day-to-day wear for what are essentially futuristic NASA officers. I also liked that there was a lot of variation, like some officers in TMP had short sleeve variants, and so on. The maroons represent the gradual shifting towards a more warlike, militaristic vision of starfleet that continued with the TNG films and later seasons of DS9/Voyager.

No thanks. It's about being explorers first and military defense second, not the other way around. There's a trace of glorification of colonialism in the films from Wrath of Khan onwards, from the maroon dress jackets to the Horner score evoking images of sailing ships. I realize Horatio Hornblower was always part of the DNA and those are still great films, I just lament what if eventually led to with the franchise emphasizing wars and big bad villains over cooperating to understand the unknown (Voyage Home an exception).

That said, I like later variants added to the maroon line, like the captain's vest jacket, and the away team jackets from II are pretty cool. My least favorite is the maroon minus the turtleneck and belt seen on the Enterprise C crew. That was just lazy and I'd have like to have seen a better looking transition from the maroons to the TNG spandex.

That would explain why I liked Voyage Home better than Wrath of Kahn.

 

[Luminous]

 

[Totenkindly]

Forgot we had this thread and posted something about Discovery Season 3 in the old Discovery thread (maybe that's fine).

Star Trek Discovery lack of interest

Won’t surprise me. They lionized McCain. Look, there were a lot of honorable things about McCain, like his anti-torture position when many Republicans supported torture, but at the end of the day he was a neocon who supported most of the Bush Admin’s foreign policy in the Middle East...

www.typologycentral.com

ALso been seeing a lot of promo's now for Picard Season 2. It's weird because I have seen FB friends saying the trailer excites them. I find myself turned off by it. I was really kind of disappointed by the initial season, which seems like a throwback to the look and feel of 90's Trek -- which I guess should not be a surprise since it's keying off TNG. But it was a show that for me was something I enjoyed at the time (especially Seasons 3-6 or so) but in recent years I don't really enjoy much on rewatch aside from some key episodes. It all just felt too pat, too formulaic, and never really getting into dramatic meat.

Season One of Picard felt the same, all pretty much on the surface held together mostly by Picard because people just like him, and also the consumation/revisit of the Data storyline that was ended abruptly in the films. But what seemed promising in Episode 1 just became a kind of hodgepodge.

Now I am seeing dumb stuff like the Borg coming back (because when Trek has nothing to say, they have to always do a Borg reprise) and the other old chestnut "OMG WE HAVE TO GO BACK IN TIME TO SAVE OUR FUTURE" bit -- again, yet another schtick that Trek repeatedly falls into when it has nothing new to do. I think I am starting to judge scifi series by how often they resort to time travel in their plotlines, because it seems the easy go-to position when you aren't imaginative to create regular dramatic plotlines. It's all about the plot device/schtick, not about writing decent drama and interactions for the characters. When I saw the trailers, I was less interested in Season 2 than more.

About the only thing I find enticing is the return of Q -- which is yet another plot device, but I always did enjoy de Lancie at least.

Is it odd to say I seem much more excited by Lower Decks than other Trek right now?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I thought the Q arc wrapped up nicely with "All Good Things". I think John de Lancie has really great chemistry with Patrick Stewart, but that trailer just made me cringe for some reason. It all feels a bit too fan service and obvious, and at this point they're just resorting to digging up old fan favorite characters like Q and Seven of Nine to capitalize on long time fans' nostalgia whilst hoping they are too distracted by the member berries to notice the shoddy writing and butchering of lore and continuity. Sure, a touch of delight seeing Q and hearing him utter "Mon Capitan" again, but then at the same time I know there's never any going back to what made TNG great. I'm OK with that, I just wish the writers and producers knew what show they were trying to give us with Picard. It seems they want to have it both ways, one moment saying it in no way will be like TNG, whilst the next moment teasing us with images and characters obviously included to remind us of TNG. Unfortunately, all those do is serve to remind me of what this new show is (and is not), and if I really want to see Q fuck with Picard again, I'm happy popping on a rerun of one of his TNG episodes. If I want to watch new TNG, I watch Orville.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I also wish this myth of some longstanding bromance between Picard and Data would die. If ANYONE would be sitting around sadly ruminating on Data, wouldn't it be his best friend Geordi, rather than a Captain who at most maintained a friendly professional relationship with him over the course of TNG and most of the films? Picard was practically ready to dismantle Data on more than one occasion, yet we're suddenly supposed to believe they had this super close relationship? Picard was never buddies with the crew, and that distance is part of what made his character compelling and interesting.

Where the fuck is Geordi during all of this?

 

[Totenkindly]

I thought the Q arc wrapped up nicely with "All Good Things". I think John de Lancie has really great chemistry with Patrick Stewart, but that trailer just made me cringe for some reason. It all feels a bit too fan service and obvious, and at this point they're just resorting to digging up old fan favorite characters like Q and Seven of Nine to capitalize on long time fans' nostalgia whilst hoping they are too distracted by the member berries to notice the shoddy writing and butchering of lore and continuity. Sure, a touch of delight seeing Q and hearing him utter "Mon Capitan" again, but then at the same time I know there's never any going back to what made TNG great. I'm OK with that, I just wish the writers and producers knew what show they were trying to give us with Picard. It seems they want to have it both ways, one moment saying it in no way will be like TNG, whilst the next moment teasing us with images and characters obviously included to remind us of TNG. Unfortunately, all those do is serve to remind me of what this new show is (and is not), and if I really want to see Q fuck with Picard again, I'm happy popping on a rerun of one of his TNG episodes. If I want to watch new TNG, I watch Orville.

See bold especially -- yes, they made this series that was supposed to be something new, but they seem to merely be resting on their laurels and affection for Picard, while doing nothing really new or interesting with him or a new group of heroes. I can't help but think it was just Paramount doing a high-level pitch to generate interest and income for their cable channel ("Oh, let's make a Picard series, that will get us some cash flow!") without actually having specific stories to say. That is what it reminds me of: Their intention was good but they had NO SPECIFIC ideas of what they could do or stories they had in mind, they just had the properties/characters they wanted to use somehow. So automatically they just resort to the same-old.

I think I mentioned before that some of the actors are wasted -- most notably Alison Pill, her character is just really milquetoast, she's really gone far beyond this role in series like In Treatment or DEVS already... Like, I don't get why they would cast her if they're not going to write well for her. Anyone could have played her role.

It really does seem to be about nostalgia being used to justify having their cable channel, versus using the properties in new ways.

I also wish this myth of some longstanding bromance between Picard and Data would die. If ANYONE would be sitting around sadly ruminating on Data, wouldn't it be his best friend Geordi, rather than a Captain who at most maintained a friendly professional relationship with him over the course of TNG and most of the films? Picard was practically ready to dismantle Data on more than one occasion, yet we're suddenly supposed to believe they had this super close relationship? Picard was never buddies with the crew, and that distance is part of what made his character compelling and interesting.

Where the fuck is Geordi during all of this?

I don't think Geordi shows up at all in Season 1. I'm not sure why that is -- whether the writers didn't want him or Burton couldn't make time for it.

Let's face it, Geordi is also considered a second string character (IMO), compared to Picard, Data, and Worf. I still do find it believable Picard had a quiet deep-seated affection for Data, more than was shown on screen perhaps. But yeah, he did spend a lot of time with other characters as well and we didn't really hear from them. I only remember Riker and Troi showing up for one episode (which I actually did enjoy, it was handled well).

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

^^ It is likely the producers didn't want to dump too many familiar characters into season 1. Finding a way to work in a dozen cameos all at once might be tricky, and it would also be really forced and awkward if they had worked every single TNG character into cameos in season 1. They might be saving Geordi for a later appearance. I could see him as a professor of engineering at Starfleet Academy, or perhaps he retired and went to be a design engineer in the private sector. Why Picard hasn't gone to more of his old crewmates for help sooner, will hopefully be touched on as well. Like, Raffi, OK, that was the only ex starfleet person he could think of, a subordinate from a late point in his own starfleet career? Surely he hasn't burned all of his old bridges in starfleet by this point?

If they do insist on going the route of including more character cameos, I'd like to know what became of Guinan, Barclay, and Wesley Crusher. Worf, being the fan favorite he is--it isn't a question of if he'll appear, but when. Michael Dorn has made no secret that he's open to reprising the character through the years, and Worf's appearance might make more sense if they decide to touch more on current Federation-Klingon relations.

Other lose ends from TNG, though I'm not necessarily saying we need to clutter the show with appearances by all of them:

Sela: What became of her? Did she fall out of favor with the Romulan leadership? Some mention might have been nice, considering the strong emphasis on Romulan politics in the first season
Martok: Is he still chancellor? Is he still alive for that matter?
The Founders: At least some mention of current Dominion-UFP relations would be nice.
Cardassians: How have they been doing rebuilding since the Dominion War? Perhaps they have joined the Federation and cast aside their imperialistic tendencies?
Janeway: I'd at least like to know what she's been up to since Voyager made it home. Is she still in starfleet or retired? How did she take to Picard shittalking Starfleet in season 1?
Miles O'Brien: We know he went to teach at the academy after DS9, but that is about it


In the least, mentions of some of these would be nice. Some appearing would be weird in a Picard show, since they're more Prominent in non-TNG shows, but there are a lot of loose ends that have never been mentioned since DS9 and Voyager ended. The Alpha Quadrant was a radically different place after the dominion war, and the new series has only done a middling job of showing how it has evolved in 20 years. even if it wasn't really HIS war, pretending it didn't affect him in some way is naive and a disservice to anyone who watched all 7 years of DS9

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Though I guess we will see more of Janeway soon enough. I do have trouble seeing her remaining in Starfleet after their handling of the romulan crisis. Picard was likely one of many who resigned in protest.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Though I guess we will see more of Janeway soon enough. I do have trouble seeing her remaining in Starfleet after their handling of the romulan crisis. Picard was likely one of many who resigned in protest.

You remember when Janeway was on MST3K?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

You remember when Janeway was on MST3K?

laserblast?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

laserblast?

Mark Hamill in Falling Down.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I've never thought Khan's recognition of Chekov in Star Trek II was a plot hole. People usually cite this, arguing that because Chekov wasn't yet a character when Khan appeared in TOS season 1, there should be no way Khan recognizes him.

OK, all we know is that Chekov isn't a bridge officer until season 2. He very easily could've been serving in some other position on the ship when Khan was there in "Space Seed", and Khan could've encountered him despite that encounter not being in the episode. Why would Khan remember some minor ensign from 15 years ago? Why wouldn't he? He's an augment with superior strength and intellect. Perhaps he has a photographic memory, or perhaps Chekov, being the guy with the prominent Russian accent, was kind of hard to forget. Or perhaps prior to his attempt to take control of the ship, he had hacked the computers and memorized personnel details, hence his memory of Chekov despite Chekov seemingly playing no role in the events of "Space Seed".

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

My bigger issue with STII, is why wouldn't Kirk have notified Starfleet of Khan and the Augments living in exile on Ceti Alpha V. Considering the danger posed by augments, I would think he'd want to take a few precautions. First, I'd launch a warning buoy near the outskirts of the Ceti Alpha star system, warning passing ships to avoid Ceti Alpha V at all costs. Second, I would notify Starfleet Command that a dangerous warlord and his cronies were there, and Starfleet would then likely have issued a general order to all ships about the danger of the augments on Ceti Alpha V. There should have been nobody considering Ceti Alpha VI as a candidate for the Genesis experiment, considering its proximity to Ceti Alpha V, and yet nobody seemed to be aware of the threat, which means Kirk either didn't bother to report, or that he did report it, but starfleet command didn't take the threat seriously.

 

[Paisley]

Random thought about the original Star Trek series, I hated it as a child only because of the pinging sound of the ship that's of a frequency that is so hard on my ears that I get mild vertigo and nausea; no joke. If there were a way to remove the pinging sound of the enterprise from the show altogether, I'd love The Original Series of Star Trek.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Random thought about the original Star Trek series, I hated it as a child only because of the pinging sound of the ship that's of a frequency that is so hard on my ears that I get mild vertigo and nausea; no joke. If there were a way to remove the pinging sound of the enterprise from the show altogether, I'd love The Original Series of Star Trek.

you could skip most of TOS and not really miss too much. I know that's blasphemy to some but there's a handful of what I'd consider essential episodes padded out by a lot of monster-of-the-week and planets-that-evolved-societies-similar-to-earth-but-more-fucked-up episodes that all blur together (seriously, I still find myself confusing the one where they visit roman world with the one where they visit nazi german world and the one where they visit mafia world. They started overdoing that trope in season 2--there's also the one where they visit the planet with a society of "yangs" and "komms" which is supposed to be a metaphor for yankees vs communists, and while I know it was supposed to be a topical episode, it really didn't age well. I also find Kirk too preachy compared to Picard--too often episodes resolve with him deciding for societies and imposing his own cultural values on other people; there is a touch of residual glorification of colonialism in TOS that was thankfully minimized and mostly excised from the formula by the time they made TNG. The "preachiness" made a return in Voyager, though Janeway was inconsisent about it--one week she's take a Picard like approach, practicing non-interference, and the next week she'd have no problem violating the prime directive and lecturing aliens about why her federation values were superior.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Here's what I'd consider essential TOS. Skip the rest. Over half are first season episodes, just showing how the quality slid as it went on. Only 2 are from season 3. Shit, you could even skip The Menagerie, since The Cage makes it mostly redundant. A lot of older fans probably saw Menagerie first, since Cage wasn't available to general audiences for years. I saw The Cage first, so when I watched the Menagerie, it felt like a clip show. It's impossible for me to unsee it as such, although I do commend the creative way the writers and producers used the original pilot footage and built a compelling episode around it. My personal favorite episodes from this list are probably The Devil in the Dark and Amok Time--the former is what I would consider a perfect Star Trek episode, right up there with The Motion Picture, The Measure of a Man, Distant Origin, and Far Beyond The Stars.

The Cage
The Corbomite Maneuver
The Naked Time
Balance of Terror
The Galileo Seven
The Menagerie Pts. 1 & 2
Arena
Space Seed
The Devil in the Dark
Errand of Mercy
The City on the Edge of Forever
Amok Time
The Doomsday Machine
The Changeling
Mirror, Mirror
The Trouble With Tribbles
Journey To Babel
The Tholian Web
Let That Be Your Last Battlefield

 

[Paisley]

you could skip most of TOS and not really miss too much. I know that's blasphemy to some but there's a handful of what I'd consider essential episodes padded out by a lot of monster-of-the-week and planets-that-evolved-societies-similar-to-earth-but-more-fucked-up episodes that all blur together (seriously, I still find myself confusing the one where they visit roman world with the one where they visit nazi german world and the one where they visit mafia world. They started overdoing that trope in season 2--there's also the one where they visit the planet with a society of "yangs" and "komms" which is supposed to be a metaphor for yankees vs communists, and while I know it was supposed to be a topical episode, it really didn't age well. I also find Kirk too preachy compared to Picard--too often episodes resolve with him deciding for societies and imposing his own cultural values on other people; there is a touch of residual glorification of colonialism in TOS that was thankfully minimized and mostly excised from the formula by the time they made TNG. The "preachiness" made a return in Voyager, though Janeway was inconsisent about it--one week she's take a Picard like approach, practicing non-interference, and the next week she'd have no problem violating the prime directive and lecturing aliens about why her federation values were superior.

Oh dude, that's great to hear, pass then on TOS.

I've seen most of TNG, all of DS9 once on DVD in college when they were just releasing the DVD's, and I've rewatched all 7 seasons of Voyager maybe 5 times now, Ensign Kim Forever, and I could easily watch it again right now, it's just so good!

Enterprise was/is incurably boring.

Lower Decks is fantastic on every level including sick bay.

Picard is a solid effort and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. Not particularly rewatchable for me and why the fuck would you kill off Icheb without giving him a backstory!

...and in Discovery all the actors feel like one show tune away from breaking out in song; none of them feel like they belong on Star Trek. I'm sure you know the obvious problems with canon, filming, the tactless culturally dated woke agenda for the time period, the effortfully unnecessary cinematography, etc. The premise has all the foundations for a good show about Section 31 and they botched it on every front but it's way better than Enterprise, lolz. Why CBS would hire and fire Bryan Fuller, then get Akiva Goldsman and all these guys, when they should just hire Ronald D Moore and pay him whatever he wants in gold plated latnum to produce and write Discovery properly, when he's finished with other projects, but oh well.

The Orville's amazing because Brannon Braga executive produced it, and he did Voyager, and he understands the viewers of scifi because he's one of them; he's amazing.

Tom Paris wrote and executive produced Resident Alien starring Alan Tudyk, and it's the best scifi on TV by a mile!